Sister Tracy debating a Muslim

From http://web.archive.org/web/20060529080825/http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/islam2.htm

 

 

CONVERSATION WITH A Mahometan

The following is an e-mail exchange between me and a Mahometan (follower of Muhammad, a Muslim) who wrote in response to our article on Islam. Notice how lightly the transgressions of Muhammad are taken. Of particular note, the Mahometan agrees that Mahomet didn't know if he was going to heaven or not. If the man Muhammad did not know if he was going to heaven or not, why would you trust YOUR ETERNAL LIFE to his teachings? If Muhammad was Allah's Prophet, wouldn't his god tell him how to know for sure he was going to make it in to paradise?

I mean, any kook could say, "I preached to genies and a god named Allah gave me his word to give to all mankind. I am the great Prophet!!!" That is all that Muhammad (aka Mahomet) did. Muhammad did no miracle, Mahomet was not foretold thousands of years before his birth, Mahomet did not live a holy life, Mahomet was a big time sinner, and a child molester--even in the eyes of his own followers. Mahomet was a false prophet. There is no comparison between he and the Lord Jesus Christ, the Lovely One. Well, on to our conversation...

  

E-MAIL NUMBER 1

The Mahometan said:

Hello.

I am a college student in *****. I have been going to Bible talks here on campus. I am a Muslim by birth and by choice.. but I like to study other religions.

I was brought up in India, where there are very few Christians. Since I was raised in a Muslim household, it is very difficult for me to understand the concept of Jesus being the son of God, and being God himself. I have been discussing this with my Christian friends and we always end up without any mutual agreement on this concept.

I read your impression on what Muslims are and what they believe. I am not a devout Muslim.. but I have learned while in school in the middle east, things that are not what you say. There are things very true in your report. Like Muhammed was a sinner and that he did not know whether he was going to go to heaven or not. You see, Muslims do not believe that Muhammed was any greater than any other human being. He was an ordinary human being simply chosen by Allah to to deliver His messege. Of course Muhammed sinned. What ordinary human being does not sin everyday...but then you'll argue that why are Muslims encouraged to follow his ways? Well, I can see why--clearly because Allah has said that we all will be judged based on the weigtage of our deeds including Muhammed. Deeds will be weighed. Therefore all are expected to have sinned some.

I don't have any recollection of the Qur'an saying that Muhammed was a white man. Jesus and Muhammed were from the middle east.. more chances of them being brown tanned skin with dark eyes and hair. Why would the books stress on skin colour anyway? It isn't relevent in the eyes of God. Of course I could be wrong. I have to refer to the Qur'an if it talks about what Muhammed looked like.

Muhammed had so many wives because they say, he felt he had an obligation to take care of the women whose husbands were taken away from them in battle or I don't know whatever reasons. Maybe this was one of his sins, maybe this was what he thought Allah wouldn't mind since there weren't many men for these poor homeless women.

He took a nine year old to bed with him. So he had a sick sex addiction. He also took a woman Khadija, who was some 40 years his senior. Why would a man want to bed that old of a woman if his perversion lay in young girls... (if that is what you're saying). Even if she WAS 9 years old, did he force her? I'm sure she could have said NO [comment: how does a 9 year old resist a grown man?]... and she could have demanded for a divorce which is perfectly permissible in Islam.

I hope I get a response.. I would love to continue the discussion. I am not a religious fanatic.. I am looking for the truth. Whoever that God is, He knows I am looking to find Him. So I am doing no wrong by questioning the paths of Christianity and Islam.

Thank you for listening. God bless,

I said:

Dear Friend:

Thank you for writing. I do thank God that you are examining the claims of Jesus Christ.

One of the purposes of the article on Islam is to demonstrate the PROFOUND DIFFERENCES between Muhammad and Jesus. They were not just two prophets. As you said, Muhammad most certainly sinned--repeatedly. Jesus Christ NEVER sinned, not even one time. His own enemies would not even say He sinned. What ordinary man can do that? None! Jesus could do it because He IS GOD come in the flesh to DESTROY the power of sin and death. Not only did Jesus destroy death in His body on the cross, HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND WAS SEEN BY OVER 500 PEOPLE! The way we even look at time revolves around Jesus Christ--1998 is 1,998 years after Jesus. Muhammad and his god do not even compare.

Islam tells you that you must perform certain deeds and rites to be acceptable to God. But the Bible (on which the Quran is supposedly based) says that there is nothing God needs from us. Common sense tells us that. What can you give God that He needs? In Psalm 50 God says, "If I were hungry, I would not tell thee; for the cattle on a thousand hills is mine." Your good deeds don't mean anything to God--how is He bettered? If anything, He is insulted and angry because you ignored the greatest Gift that He could give--HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON.

In the Old Testament, God had the people to sacrifice animals. They had to shed blood for their sins--this was a picture of what Jesus would do on the cross. The Lord Jesus shed His own ETERNAL, SINLESS, PURE BLOOD for the sins of the whole world. Jesus was indeed a qualified and worthy sacrifice for as God He was sinless and eternal and powerful enough to take on the sins of the whole world. He died in our place. He was a substitutionary sacrifice. Jesus was so much better than Muhammad for He proceeded directly from God and He is God. Jesus is Saviour. Muhammad, false prophet.

A couple of articles may help you to understand the importance of the shed blood and the deity of Jesus Christ:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060529080825/http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/blood.htm

http://web.archive.org/web/20060529080825/http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/jesusgd2.htm

I do hope that we will continue this conversation--Jesus is Lord and I pray that you will make Him Lord of your life--if you do, you will never be the same. This I know.

For Jesus' sake,
Tracy
--
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com

E-MAIL NUMBER 2

The Mahometan said:

Hi Tracy. Thanks so much for the reply. It really helped me understand some.

The most challenging thing about Jesus for me is that he is known as the 'son' of God. I've talked to my Christian friends and they have so tried to convince me of this belief. I am confused about how Jesus could be the son of God.. I do not defy that he did come from God and was sent by Him. I am most bewildered about is.. for eg: When Jesus was on the cross, and said to the Father, "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing". Now when you say that Jesus IS God, was he then talking to himself on the cross and other times?

What I also want to know is the actual definition of "son" of God. If Jesus is called the "son" of God, why does the Bible say that God loves us and that we are all His "children".. we are all God's sons and daughters and yet you would say that Jesus was the only son of God.

Also, yesterday when I was at the Bible talk with my Christian friends we read a passage and one of the sentences said, "No one has seen God" (I will ask for the exact book, chapter and verse). Why does it say this in the Bible when Jesus himself said that "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father". It seems contradictory to me.

Oh I have so many questions and hope I will find God. I hope you don't think that I am against Christianity in any way. I don't know all of it and before I can develop that faith, it has to strike me in belief. So allow me to argue your claims here:

"Jesus could do it because He IS GOD come in the flesh to DESTROY the power of sin and death. Not only did Jesus destroy death in His body on the cross, HE ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND WAS SEEN BY OVER 500 PEOPLE! The way we even look at time revolves around Jesus Christ--1998 is 1,998 after Jesus."

I do not doubt that if Jesus never sinned, he really was no ordinary human being. Muhammed claimed that he really was an ordinary human being. His job was not to be a saviour or to carry all our sins. He just had to deliver the messege of Allah. We have to be responsible for our own sins because we have to put the messege of Allah into practice and not for someone to do it for us. We are our own saviours and Allah will get us there by being proud of us. I believe in this because I have never doubted that we create our own realities. I don't think that simply worshipping or relying on Jesus or anything else that is believed to save us, will indeed save us because we have to prove to the lord that we are worthy of being saved by DOING what pleases the lord (and I do not doubt that part of the doing is worshipping and praying to the almighty too). Another difference in Islam and Christianity I see here is that Islam does not encourage Muslims to think of themselves as having to be merely saved. We must strive for more than that. Allah created us so that we may be elevated.

The world follows the Christian calender. But Islam also has its calender which is used by all Muslims. We have our New Year and Christmas too.

"Islam tells you that you must perform certain deeds and rites to be acceptable to God. But the Bible (on which the Quran is supposedly based) says that there is nothing God needs from us."

That is very true that God really doesn't need anything. However the reason why Islam has these rites and rituals is to bring a sense of unity among all people following Allah, creating brotherly love for one another when they know that they have a common goal and that we can help each other get there. Christianity too has its rituals.. don't you have to study the word of God? Must you not go to church and each time declare that Jesus is your saviour?

All this pleases God. If you say that God really doesn't need anything from us, why does He tell us to love Him? What I mean is, would you think God would be the same if we weren't created? Don't you think He just would be idol doing nothing.. no people to judge and guide?

If God gets angry, He is missing that love which He needs from us because if he didn't create us, He wouldn't have had the love or desire to create us at all. If He didn't need love and obedience, he wouldn't have created us. Even Islam doesn't give any explanation why Allah created us.. but I do believe He has created us for a reason and since there is nothing higher than God, He has created us to bring Him pleasure, love and obedience and maybe that's what He thinks He needs. He has not sent satan to hell yet because in all actuality, satan helps Him in a way.. because nothing can ever exist without its opposite. If there is no evil, there is no good either and as long as there is evil, there will always be good. To preach good to all mankind, God needs satan.

What rituals and rites do you know of Islam? If you could tell me what you think the Islamic God needs and is devoid of that Muslims have to perform those rites.. it would make what you are trying to convey to me a little clearer.

"Jesus was so much better than Muhammad for He proceeded directly from God, He is God."

When I talked to my friends about this, they did say that Jesus was a part of God.. but also was God. This confuses the life out of me. Ok, so when Jesus walked on the earth, would you say God walked on the earth? ..but you would say that the Father was still up there when Jesus was on the earth? One of my friends tried to explain the trinity by giving me an example...Please enlighten me if you have an alternate explanation!!

In Islam, it criticizes the trinity for defying the oneness of God. If God is one made up of three parts, why can't God have the qualities of all those three parts in ONE.. God doesn't need to divide Himself into 3 parts. The 3 parts tell me that one part of Him does not have the qualities of the other two parts.. how can God be limited like this? God is complete always in one state of spirit not in three, where He is half of His whole sometimes. At other times when God is one, where are his parts if He is made of three? I hope you see where I'm coming from..

Phew this was long!! I'm real sorry if I took up so much of your time.. when you pray to Jesus, please tell Him that I love Him and know that He loves me. I do believe in Jesus and that he did walk on this land. Please don't think of me as a rebel against Christianity.. think of me as a two year old with lots of tantrums!!

Thanks Tracy. Write soon.
God bless,

I said:

Dear Friend:

Good to hear from you. Before I go further, I just want to point out one thing--according to the Bible, as an unregenerate person, there is a limit to what you will understand about the things of God. 1 Corinthians 2:14 says,

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: NEITHER CAN HE KNOW THEM, because they are spiritually discerned."

Please keep this in mind. Do not let your incomplete knowledge keep you from getting saved. I've been saved 7 years and the more I get to know the true God, the more in awe I am and the more I realize I don't really know too much--but I know enough to be saved and how to lead others to His feet. Glory to God.

This said, I will answer your comments/questions by course:

"The most challenging thing about Jesus for me is that he is known as the 'son' of God...I am confused about how Jesus could be the son of God...I am most bewildered about is.. for eg: When Jesus was on the cross, and said to the Father, 'Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing'...Now when you say that Jesus IS God, was he then talking to himself on the cross and other times?"

Let's talk about the trinity. If you are familiar with the Bible, Genesis tells us that God created us in His own image. One of the ways that we are like God is each one of us is tri-partite: body, mind, spirit. My hand is a part of me, but it is not my intellect (mind). My intellect is a part of who I am, but it is not my emotional/spiritual center. Have you ever had a strong emotion and had your mind to say differently? When tears come streaming down my face and my mind says, "Stop crying!" I see my spirit and mind in conflict. So we have our body (flesh), our intellect (mind), and our spirit (emotional, who we are what we feel). Each one is separate, but together, they make a whole. When we see that we are tripartite it is not hard to understand God being tri-partite.

As God, each person of the trinity operates in His own sphere. When it comes to our salvation each person has a specific role: The Father sent the Son, The Son procured our salvation and sent the Holy Ghost, The Holy Ghost regenerates us born-again children of God and empowers us for His service.

"What I also want to know is the actual definition of "son" of God. If Jesus is called the "son" of God, why does the Bible say that God loves us and that we are all His "children".. we are all God's sons and daughters and yet you would say that Jesus was the only son of God."

First of all, according to the Bible, not everyone is a child of God. We are all CREATURES of God, but not children of God. The Bible says that if a person is not born-again, they are a child of the devil and the wrath of God abides on them!

Secondly, when you say Jesus is the "son" of God, you do err. He is the "Son" of God. The Bible says that those who are born-again are "sons" of God. The Bible does not say that Jesus is the only Son of God it says He is the only BEGOTTEN Son of God. It says that He proceeded forth directly from God. He came from God, He was God, He is the Creator of the universe implanted in the womb of a virgin by the Holy Ghost.

"Also, yesterday when I was at the Bible talk with my Christian friends we read a passage and one of the sentences said, 'No one has seen God' (I will ask for the exact book, chapter and verse)."

I know the verse.

"Why does it say this in the Bible when Jesus himself said that "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father". It seems contradictory to me."

That is because you do not know the Bible. You can look at isolated scripture, but you must remember to refer to other passages to illuminate the understanding thereof. In this case, according to the Bible, Jesus Christ is the EXPRESS IMAGE of God. The Lord Jesus Christ manifests ALL the attributes of God--we see God through Jesus Christ. If we were to see God in all of His glory, it would kill us the Bible says. Nevertheless, we see Him, who He truly is through His Son who took on flesh.

"Oh I have so many questions and hope I will find God. I hope you don't think that I am against Christianity in any way."

Jesus Christ is ever-present and ready to save. Please do not die without Him, Friend. I do not believe that you are against "Christianity". Please remember that what a Christian has with Jesus is not religion, but a relationship with the Creator of the universe.

"I don't know all of it and before I can develop that faith, it has to strike me in belief."

You don't believe that you are a sinner that needs to be saved?

"So allow me to argue your claims here:"

I don't really like the word argue because I don't argue/debate about the truth.

"We are our own saviours..."

Do you feel like a saviour? Are you certain that you will make it into God's home--at this point you won't and that is 100% guranteed. Muhammad was a false prophet. If you really thought you were a saviour (I don't know how you could even say that) you would not be examining the claims of the true Saviour. Muhammad was a liar, a sinner, and a thief. You know this. Why would you believe what he said?

"Allah will get us there by being proud of us."

Allah is not the God of the Bible and he (Allah) won't get you anywhere but the lake of fire. Heaven is God's home and He's made ONE WAY to get there--His name is Jesus.

"I believe in this because I have never doubted that we create our own realities."

This is ridiculous. Somebody could come hit you over your head and kill you--did you create that reality? You live only by the pure grace and determinate counsel of God.

"I don't think that simply worshipping or relying on Jesus or anything else that is believed to save us, will indeed save us because we have to prove to the lord that we are worthy of being saved by DOING what pleases the lord."

As a dirty, rotten sinner, what do you think you have to offer God that He would want? You have nothing to offer and as a Christ-rejecting individual you are His enemy according to the Bible. God only accepts worship based on the TRUTH--your Islamic worship is a lie and is rejected by God because you rejected His Son. If you decide against Jesus, you'd be better off living it up because this earth will be the closest you get to heaven. Lord have mercy.

"Allah created us so that we may be elevated."

Two things: (1) How are you elevated? Most people think of Muslim countries as somewhat backwards and violent. (2) As an ambassador of Jesus Christ, Creator of the universe, there is no higher honor. As I serve my Jesus, He gives me focus and ability to meet the needs of others in humility and love. And somehow He exalts me though I do not deserve it. It is a privilege to serve Jesus Christ. I do not like the way you speak of the Lord and His people with disrespect. I will answer the rest of this e-mail but I will not answer futher insults in this vein.

"The world follows the Christian calender. But Islam also has its calender which is used by all Muslims. We have our New Year and Christmas too."

But no one is interested. No figure in all of history has made the impact that Jesus Christ has. No one is more spoken against than Jesus Christ--why? Satan knows that Jesus is the right one! Not Muhammad, not Allah, not Buddha, not Confucious--none of them! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus! He's the RIGHT ONE!!!!! In rock music, they blasphemy His Holy Name--why? Satan knows that Jesus is the right one! They don't blasphemy nobody like they do Jesus. Their/your father knows that Jesus is the RIGHT ONE.

"Islam tells you that you must perform certain deeds and rites to be acceptable to God."

What can you do to be acceptable to your god? Ramadan? How does that commend you to him? How does that make you acceptable?

"But the Bible (on which the Quran is supposedly based)"

Supposedly is right--Muhammad got it wrong so many times it is pathetic that his religion made it this far.

"says that there is nothing God needs from us."

His Son is your provision. Jesus said the work of God is to believe on Him whom He hast sent. When a person is born-again, Christ lives in them and the Spirit of God empowers them to do good works. Until you've been born again, your works mean nothing--in fact, the Bible calls them filthy rags.

"...the reason why Islam has these rites and rituals is to bring a sense of unity among all people following Allah..."

Christian unity does not come from man made rites. When we are born-again we are all indwelt by the same Precious, Holy Spirit of God Himself. He is our unity. Your unity comes from outside of yourself, our unity comes from Christ within. God uses us Christians to minister to each other in ways that we could not have known except through His Spirit.

"Christianity too has its rituals.. don't you have to study the word of God?"

Reading the Bible is not a ritual. Unlike the Quran, the Bible is the word of God. It is a living, comprehensive whole. Reading the Bible is like eating. Jesus said, "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God". I LIKE the changes that that Book has made in me. There is none other like it in the entire universe.

"Must you not go to church and each time declare that Jesus is your saviour?"

No.

"All this pleases God. If you say that God really doesn't need anything from us, why does He tell us to love Him?"

You are confused. Love is not a need. God can live and will live without your love. He desires our love for He wants to be our God.

"What I mean is, would you think God would be the same if we weren't created?"

I do not operate in never-never land.

"Islam doesn't give any explanation why Allah created us.. but I do believe He has created us for a reason and since there is nothing higher than God, He has created us to bring Him pleasure, love and obedience..."

You are partially right. The Bible tells us why God created us--Revelation 4:11, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and FOR THY PLEASURE they are and were created.

"and maybe that's what He thinks He needs."

Need and desire are two different things--God can live without you. In fact, He has lived without you for all of your life--it is the same for everyone who has rejected Him. God lived in eternity past without man. He in no way needs us, but He loves us anyway. Many people are under the mistaken assumption that God needs them. Let me break it down like my grandmother broke it down to me--"God don't need us, we need Him!"

When a husband and wife have a little baby, they don't need that child. They had that child because they wanted to love him and be loved by him. It ain't about need. Some couples can't have kids, but they survive without them--love is a desire.

As a child of God, I love my heavenly Father and my heavenly Father loves me so good. We love each other. Jesus is good and kind and worthy of all our praise, adoration, worship and contemplation. What an experience to know Him!

The Bible is God's love letter to mankind and Jesus Christ is its Great and Central Subject. Jesus Christ is God's love offering to mankind. Jesus didn't come to condemn, He came to save. I love Jesus willingly for He is so lovely. The Lord ain't gonna force anybody to love Him. To me, anybody who doesn't is insane.

"He has not sent satan to hell yet because..."

Mumbo-jumbo.

"What rituals and rites do you know of Islam? If you could tell me what you think the Islamic God needs and is devoid of that Muslims have to perform those rites.. it would make what you are trying to convey to me a little clearer."

The issue is either you want to be saved or you don't. The intricacies of your deception are unimportant.

"When I talked to my friends about this, they did say that Jesus was a part of God.. but also was God. This confuses the life out of me. Ok, so when Jesus walked on the earth, would you say God walked on the earth? ..but you would say that the Father was still up there when Jesus was on the earth?"

See above on the trinity.

"God is beyond us."

But He is not unknowable or unreachable. Jesus Christ is the express image of God and the only way to know Him.

"when you pray to Jesus, please tell Him that I love Him and know that He loves me."

I will pray for you to be saved. And when you are saved you can pray directly to Him yourself.

"I do believe in Jesus and that he did walk on this land."

Satan also believes this. You must go further. Jesus said, "If ye believe not that I am He, ye shall die in your sins." You do not want to die in your sins, Friend.

This all only boils down to three words Friend:

REPENT OR PERISH.

Tracy
--
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com

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