Was thi;nking about that this AM during DemNow
sanda_artistNYC - 08/10/2011 - 19:11
One of the two British guests noted the one hundred plus people who have died recently in police custody. Averages two a month. Since NYC keeps it as secret as possible, not sure how many for comparison. (The Oct. 22 Coalition keeps tabs on police brutality and murders by police, in NYC and around the U.S.)
I was wondering if insurrection had happened in NYC, what would the cops response be. NYC and London have such similar stop and frisk by police, it seems like they are "twins".
NPR was awful on some show today: still using old London police bs about the shooting instead of the update info on DemNow: there is no confusion about whether the man who was shot by the London police after shooting at the police. The bullet the police said (embedded in some police item) was shot at them, was found to be police issue. And no gun found. Even the bs is similar to NYPD.
I liked the sound bite of a protester in England, who was asked about violence and press/media coverage, who pointed out that large demonstrrations recently (tens of thousands) in protest of police brutality received zero mention but with violence, there's coverage. Albeit distorted.
I was wondering if insurrection had happened in NYC, what would the cops response be. NYC and London have such similar stop and frisk by police, it seems like they are "twins".
NPR was awful on some show today: still using old London police bs about the shooting instead of the update info on DemNow: there is no confusion about whether the man who was shot by the London police after shooting at the police. The bullet the police said (embedded in some police item) was shot at them, was found to be police issue. And no gun found. Even the bs is similar to NYPD.
I liked the sound bite of a protester in England, who was asked about violence and press/media coverage, who pointed out that large demonstrrations recently (tens of thousands) in protest of police brutality received zero mention but with violence, there's coverage. Albeit distorted.
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Um, Glen - they've changed their minds...
DebC - 08/11/2011 - 03:06
"But authorities were reluctant to impose curfews, and rejected the use of rubber bullets or water cannon. British Home Secretary Theresa May explained: “The way we police in Britain is not through use of water cannon. The way we police in Britain is through consent of communities."
That may have been the case that day, but seems upon his return, Cameron has authorized BOTH water cannons and rubber bullets:http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/10/david-cameron-water-cannon-police-riots?INTCMP=SRCH
Brits might not be in the same league as the US, but he's certainly sounding like his American cousins in this video {smdh}:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8693018/David-Cameron-we-will-end-UK-riots-by-any-means-necessary.html
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mbolden11
08:24 PM on 8/11/2011
Sick. That is the only word that I can come up with to describe how I've felt the past few years after watching African American intellectuDonald Edmond
3 hours agoExactly what did we "get" from the Obama presidency? In his book, "Dreams From My Father" Barack Obama openly admits that he struggled and resented having a Black identity. Mr. Obama's self loathing led to admitted cocaine and marijuana use. Dr. Cornel West, the most esteemed and accomplished Black intellectual in American history, said that Obama harbors a resentment of Black people and that his actions show it.
I agree.
Prior to the 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary in South Carolina, President Obama trailed Senator Hillary Clinton by double digits among BLACK voters. Only then did Obama embrace (exploit) race and identify with us...to gain political legitimacy and realize his OWN dream of becoming President.
Obama never felt popular, or that he fit in socially. Becoming President closed that chapter in his life. Now Obama struts around VIP style as President of the United States, no longer shackled to struggles with his racial identity. No matter what Obama or his children do from now on, they're all set.
What about the rest of Black America? Are we "all set" thanks to Obama? Yes. We're all set to see a generation of Black children under the age of 10 grow up to never attend college and struggle against a 30% chance of completing high school. We're all set to see 50% unemployment in Black America by Nov. 2012. We are all set to see Black men and women over the age of 65 die of preventable causes because they are living below America's poverty line.
I ask you again. What has the Obama presidency "gotten" us? It's clear what it "got" Barack Obama. What it did for Black America is equally clear...nothing worth celebrating.
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Well if there is an American city with local transportation as safe, efficient and comfortahle as the one I experienced in Paris, I can assure Baltimore is NOT that city. Just had some hellish experiences with it yesterday, and problems with it has finally appeared in today's local newspaper, THE BALTIMORE SUN.
It's enough to make on nostalgic about being abroad. Probably the nearest thing we have to Barcelona or Paris would be New York, and even that city's transportation doesn't really match that of Paris---I've traveled a bit in both cities (naturally more in NYC than Paris) to know.
-Savant
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And as far as I know, even Karl Marx didn't think you could "force" the workers to be communistic. He believed that this would develop as a part of the labor movement itself.
Hence the famous statment in the Manifesto: "In the place of the old bourgeois society with its classes and clasa antagonisms, we shall have an ASSOCIATION, in which the FREE DEVELOPMENT of EACH is the condition for the FREED DEVELOPMENT of ALL." The problem, of course, is how to get their. Marx thought that FORCE would be ncessary in some countries, though probably not in the USA or England. But if force is required this means war, the need for military organization, and thus the dangers of a dictatorship and a new ruling class. A problem, however, whose solution he thought he saw in the working class uprising known as the Paris Commune, where insurgent workers and poor not only sought to end the tyranny of the privileged classes, but to limited power within their own ranks, to prevent a new elite from emerging.
And there are, of course,democratic & libertarain socialists and communists like Peter Kropotkin, Martin Buber, Martin Luther King, Jr., Erich Fromm, Rosa Luxembburg, Emma Goldmann, etc.
But the original point with Z was his FALSE claim that Marists or Leninists (which is what he means by communist) started the labor movment even though American labor movement goes back to the 1820s (Marx was born in 1818! Lenin, I believe, was born about bout 1869!), and labor movement in Europe may even go back to the late 1700s!!!
I mentioned Christian and other non-Marxist forms of communism and socialism since you commented, apparently in support of Z (or so it seemed in context) that other communists existed before Marx. True. But they influence in early American labor ranged for negligible to zilch.
We ought to at least try to get basic facts right.
Workers still create and produce, but far less that before. Thanks to de-industrialization, the displacement from a manufacturing to a service economy, and corporate outsourcing of manufacturing jobs to poorer countries where they can pay peanuts, and in which people often lack civil liberties needed to protest corporate abuse and exploitation.
-Savant
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Now keep in mind that if you were to say to a HIGH SCHOOL drop in Appalachia or the east Baltimore ghetto where I grew up that America was LITERALLY a Third world nation---literally at about the level of Burma or Malawi, they'd LAUGH and ask you what you've been drinking or smoking.
My mother, who never REACHED (let alone finished) high school knows better than that.
So, when AHYONE (whom I have no reason to believe to be retarded) says that America is Third World or backward, I take it they mean this only in a relative sense with hyperbole added for emphasis.
As for the American people.....well, I will let Barros himself address how he feels about the American people.
i don't think the relative backwardness is simply due to the stupidity of the American people, though we (like all nations) have our share of dolts and dittoheads as Barros calls them.
I think that the political and social consciousness of the USA, largely because of racism and the so-caled Protestant ethic (and excessive religiosity)is UNDERDEVELOPED.
For example, I think we should have had universal health care establixhed DECADES ago. But our corporate elite has bemused the masses, who might exert social pressure for the nation to move toward reforms if their eyes were opened.
And, I'm sorry, but the argument that other nations are smaller or less ethnically diverse, doesn't strike me as a good reason why America--which easily dwarfs even other rich nations in her wealth and resources---has to have public schools, a health care system, public transportation, AVERAGE literacy (basic and cultural) well below that of many other nations.
If the USA were really a North American Brazil, I should ber more lenient. But America is the wealthiest nation in history! And she has a Republic. We cannot claim either economic underdevelopment nor a totalitarian dictatorship as an excuse.
At some point one must ask: Has America the WILL to do justice and set her house in order--even if it means challenging the privileges of the corporate oligarchy, and many of the nations deep-seated values and attitudes popular among the masses themselves?
-Savant
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I agree.
Prior to the 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary in South Carolina, President Obama trailed Senator Hillary Clinton by double digits among BLACK voters. Only then did Obama embrace (exploit) race and identify with us...to gain political legitimacy and realize his OWN dream of becoming President.
Obama never felt popular, or that he fit in socially. Becoming President closed that chapter in his life. Now Obama struts around VIP style as President of the United States, no longer shackled to struggles with his racial identity. No matter what Obama or his children do from now on, they're all set.
What about the rest of Black America? Are we "all set" thanks to Obama? Yes. We're all set to see a generation of Black children under the age of 10 grow up to never attend college and struggle against a 30% chance of completing high school. We're all set to see 50% unemployment in Black America by Nov. 2012. We are all set to see Black men and women over the age of 65 die of preventable causes because they are living below America's poverty line.
I ask you again. What has the Obama presidency "gotten" us? It's clear what it "got" Barack Obama. What it did for Black America is equally clear...nothing worth celebrating.
__________
Well if there is an American city with local transportation as safe, efficient and comfortahle as the one I experienced in Paris, I can assure Baltimore is NOT that city. Just had some hellish experiences with it yesterday, and problems with it has finally appeared in today's local newspaper, THE BALTIMORE SUN.
It's enough to make on nostalgic about being abroad. Probably the nearest thing we have to Barcelona or Paris would be New York, and even that city's transportation doesn't really match that of Paris---I've traveled a bit in both cities (naturally more in NYC than Paris) to know.
-Savant
____________
Yes, it was by "common agreement" which is the only way communism can actually work.
1) This was done with common agreement, not forced on them as the left wingers do today. One should never, ever use Christ's preachings as a justification for socialism, for Christ did not force compliance nor was he the socialist some Progessive Christians try to promote as. Christ was about free choice.
2) If the workers "built", why aren't they building today?
And as far as I know, even Karl Marx didn't think you could "force" the workers to be communistic. He believed that this would develop as a part of the labor movement itself.
Hence the famous statment in the Manifesto: "In the place of the old bourgeois society with its classes and clasa antagonisms, we shall have an ASSOCIATION, in which the FREE DEVELOPMENT of EACH is the condition for the FREED DEVELOPMENT of ALL." The problem, of course, is how to get their. Marx thought that FORCE would be ncessary in some countries, though probably not in the USA or England. But if force is required this means war, the need for military organization, and thus the dangers of a dictatorship and a new ruling class. A problem, however, whose solution he thought he saw in the working class uprising known as the Paris Commune, where insurgent workers and poor not only sought to end the tyranny of the privileged classes, but to limited power within their own ranks, to prevent a new elite from emerging.
And there are, of course,democratic & libertarain socialists and communists like Peter Kropotkin, Martin Buber, Martin Luther King, Jr., Erich Fromm, Rosa Luxembburg, Emma Goldmann, etc.
But the original point with Z was his FALSE claim that Marists or Leninists (which is what he means by communist) started the labor movment even though American labor movement goes back to the 1820s (Marx was born in 1818! Lenin, I believe, was born about bout 1869!), and labor movement in Europe may even go back to the late 1700s!!!
I mentioned Christian and other non-Marxist forms of communism and socialism since you commented, apparently in support of Z (or so it seemed in context) that other communists existed before Marx. True. But they influence in early American labor ranged for negligible to zilch.
We ought to at least try to get basic facts right.
Workers still create and produce, but far less that before. Thanks to de-industrialization, the displacement from a manufacturing to a service economy, and corporate outsourcing of manufacturing jobs to poorer countries where they can pay peanuts, and in which people often lack civil liberties needed to protest corporate abuse and exploitation.
-Savant
________________________
Barros is at times given to overheated rhetoric. However, his posts seem to reveal a considerable deal of education--from his lexicon I suspect it is in within the social sciences. And he seems to have travelled extensively as well as having learned pretty well at least two foreign languages.
Lord Savant,
If you had said those things I would agree with your post, but I have been listening to Lord Barros Serrano disparage the United States for years now. So have you. He genuinely hates the people in the United States with a passion. He has made that abundantly clear on innumerable occasions. I am shocked that you are coming to his defense on this because I rarely detect hatred or condescension in your posts.
Anyway, it is not a fair comparison to look at small and populated countries like Japan or those found in Western Europe. The distances are just too great ouside of the Atlantic seaboard for the United States to construct a comparble raail transportationsystem. My computer is acting up so I will chat with you later sire.
Now keep in mind that if you were to say to a HIGH SCHOOL drop in Appalachia or the east Baltimore ghetto where I grew up that America was LITERALLY a Third world nation---literally at about the level of Burma or Malawi, they'd LAUGH and ask you what you've been drinking or smoking.
My mother, who never REACHED (let alone finished) high school knows better than that.
So, when AHYONE (whom I have no reason to believe to be retarded) says that America is Third World or backward, I take it they mean this only in a relative sense with hyperbole added for emphasis.
As for the American people.....well, I will let Barros himself address how he feels about the American people.
i don't think the relative backwardness is simply due to the stupidity of the American people, though we (like all nations) have our share of dolts and dittoheads as Barros calls them.
I think that the political and social consciousness of the USA, largely because of racism and the so-caled Protestant ethic (and excessive religiosity)is UNDERDEVELOPED.
For example, I think we should have had universal health care establixhed DECADES ago. But our corporate elite has bemused the masses, who might exert social pressure for the nation to move toward reforms if their eyes were opened.
And, I'm sorry, but the argument that other nations are smaller or less ethnically diverse, doesn't strike me as a good reason why America--which easily dwarfs even other rich nations in her wealth and resources---has to have public schools, a health care system, public transportation, AVERAGE literacy (basic and cultural) well below that of many other nations.
If the USA were really a North American Brazil, I should ber more lenient. But America is the wealthiest nation in history! And she has a Republic. We cannot claim either economic underdevelopment nor a totalitarian dictatorship as an excuse.
At some point one must ask: Has America the WILL to do justice and set her house in order--even if it means challenging the privileges of the corporate oligarchy, and many of the nations deep-seated values and attitudes popular among the masses themselves?
-Savant
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BakkByPopularDemand2 hours ago
2 hours agospeak on it! great posts!
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Harvey33
3 days ago
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Keep in mind that diseases are mutating to the extent penicillin isn't curing the problem! Also, it isn't wise to have children all over the place by multiple women. YOU ROCK and don't lose that. Remember, it's YOUR body and you have a say in how you want to treat it.
Awesome & great job.
BM are the greatest but hard headed!!!
Yes I love'em but sometimes they get on ya d____ nerves! >:-(
But then again, I can't live w/o my Brothers b/c they are so smart and crazy at the same time.
I agree w/you Sister. Nice thread.
-Ezra_Yisrael1970
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bobthecats
Harvey33
3 days agoFirst thing..You can refer to The President as Mr,Sir and Mr.President. I never called him "Boy" or Obama. Alot of you defend him but don't follow politics if you did you would know that the Dems stoood by while Acorn was lied on By Fox Klan and The Repubs and Big Business. Where was Mr.Obama at when that was going on? But the Dems and Mr.Obama are B___ and Moaning about the Tea Party. I called Clinton and Bush Mister as well. Alot of us within the black community seem to have forgot that President Obama when running for office did not come in our community to speak to us,but went into neighborhoods that blacks did not live hug and kiss whites who did not vote for him or who did vote but now attack him because he not jumping when they say jump.We seem to forget that every black person who spoke up defended him were dumped when white attacked him because they were worried that blacks might get something. He can go on Fox News and look at how they dissed him.Where were you and those blacks at when those at Fox attacked him and our community? When John Stewart called him dude,did you and others get pissed? How many blacks been dumped by this brother. Hell he even dissed his own Father,based on what his Mom and GrandParents said.Look how fast Rev.Wright was dissed when all he did was speak truth. He called Farrakhan anti-Jewish when he knew Farrakhan when infact he used the N.O.I to help get the vote out when he was running for office here in IL. When white Hollywood attack him mock him do we boycott the Movies Tvshows etc. Remember how he dissed black Hollywood who defend him against Racist attacks.Look how White women attack this man call him weak,talking about him not having balls etc. Harry Reid talking about him not having a black tone. Joe Wilson saying he lied and he forgave each and everyone. Hillary used racism to attack him and us. She's part of his team. He didn't even want Jesse Jackson Jr. to have his old senate sit. When Jesse Jr.diss his own dad for Mr.Obama. But you wanna attack me and those who call his a__ out. Alot of you are gonna by really pissed when he leaves office.Have we not learned about not holding Blacks in office to a high standard.
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Yosha Poetry5 days ago
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A_4 days ago
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Yosha Poetry
5 days ago________
A_
4 days agoIs this a joke? Have you heard of the State of the Black Union? Come on now, lets at least keep the debate honest. Smiley and West and a whole host of black leaders kept Bush to the fire including AL SHARPTON from day one.
But one thing I want you to help me out with. About .0000001% of Black people even voted for Bush, but then 99.99999% of the black population wanted him to give blacks JOBS, HOMES, GOOD SCHOOLS, STOP BLACK ON BLACK CRIME in 4 years! FF to 2008 and 99.9999% of Blacks vote for Obama but as soon as anyone asks him to improve conditions that eliminates poverty (Notice, not one of these brothers have asked for Jobs, HOMES, GOOD SCHOOLS or even Stop black on black crime) they are now pariahs? This sh___ is so comical.
A Bunch of brothers in New Orleans get caught out by a NATURAL disaster that they don't prepare for and blacks jump all over Bush because he went down 3 days later and not right away and was asking why he didn't come with keys to new houses and cars for every black person displaced, but Obama allows crooked ass bankers to continue to exploit black, white, red, brown and yellow people, and as soon as someone asks, what's going on, ya'll want to put them in a corner and stone them? Some of you have absolutely lost your minds!
But one thing I want you to help me out with. About .0000001% of Black people even voted for Bush, but then 99.99999% of the black population wanted him to give blacks JOBS, HOMES, GOOD SCHOOLS, STOP BLACK ON BLACK CRIME in 4 years! FF to 2008 and 99.9999% of Blacks vote for Obama but as soon as anyone asks him to improve conditions that eliminates poverty (Notice, not one of these brothers have asked for Jobs, HOMES, GOOD SCHOOLS or even Stop black on black crime) they are now pariahs? This sh___ is so comical.
A Bunch of brothers in New Orleans get caught out by a NATURAL disaster that they don't prepare for and blacks jump all over Bush because he went down 3 days later and not right away and was asking why he didn't come with keys to new houses and cars for every black person displaced, but Obama allows crooked ass bankers to continue to exploit black, white, red, brown and yellow people, and as soon as someone asks, what's going on, ya'll want to put them in a corner and stone them? Some of you have absolutely lost your minds!
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buickjazz3 days ago
3 days agoTypical. But I'm not surprised that "C___" Harvey would go down that road. I lost all respect for him when he said he only voted for Obama because he was black. That shows how out of touch he was. Im not saying any of the other candidates were any better choices but he could at least have backed up his statements with his knowledge of BO's platform issues and political stance. But he essentially said, he would only pick "the black guy" and expected all of us to follow suit. Which is something a racist would say if the tables were turned. And in typical racist fashion, Harvey resorts to name-calling and calls anyone who disagrees with Obama "uncle toms" (read: "N-lovers" if the shoe was on the other foot) because he's not smart enough to reinforce his opposition with a common sense argument. This is why I don't listen to his show in the morning and why I no longer endorse his comedy. The fact that he spews such hatred for any black person who dares to have a different opinion from his or a particular segment of popular black thinking is narrow-minded and dare I say "racist". I voted for BO but I will vigorously defend anyone's right to agree or disagree with him if they have a valid point other than his race.
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I think it's admirable that you are saving yourself for that special one. In this sex-crazed society we live in, it is very rare to see a self preserved man who LOVES his TEMPLE.I'm still waiting on marriage. Why do people think it is weird to be a virgin until marriage?
Now that I'm finished with my studies, I'm ready to marry. I'll be going back to Africa to find a woman as I find the Western Women to be a little crazy, no offense.
Keep in mind that diseases are mutating to the extent penicillin isn't curing the problem! Also, it isn't wise to have children all over the place by multiple women. YOU ROCK and don't lose that. Remember, it's YOUR body and you have a say in how you want to treat it.
Awesome & great job.
BM are the greatest but hard headed!!!
Yes I love'em but sometimes they get on ya d____ nerves! >:-(
But then again, I can't live w/o my Brothers b/c they are so smart and crazy at the same time.
I agree w/you Sister. Nice thread.
-Ezra_Yisrael1970
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bobthecats
10:28 PM on 8/11/2011
I totally disagree with you. I believe West and Smiley are doing a wonderful thing. They are trying to open peoples minds and hearts to what is occurring in America. Yes, we've heard 1 in 6 people are on food stamps and people are losing everything - but there is no face on the statistics
I saw a program on Remote Area Medical some time ago. It is a non-profit which was establish to help people in remote areas get medical attention, they now do work in the US. The lines of people, in the US, who had driven hundreds of miles for medical attention and the interviews were heart wrenching.
You worry about embarrassi
I saw a program on Remote Area Medical some time ago. It is a non-profit which was establish to help people in remote areas get medical attention, they now do work in the US. The lines of people, in the US, who had driven hundreds of miles for medical attention and the interviews were heart wrenching.
You worry about embarrassi
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2 days agoThe U.S. Government gives YOUR TAX MONEY to Israel, $3 BILLION dollars FREE each year. I dare you to google that. Wars in Afghanistan, Iraq & now Libya (thanks Pres. Obama) $1 TRILLION dollars so far.
Foreign aid to Pakistan OVER $900 million each year.
Aid to other countries not listed above--BILLIONS EACH YEAR.
Who among us can justify giving away all that money while cutting Social Security?
The focus about this country is not about Obama's critics. The focus is the U.S. Governments policies at home & around the world.
I await your response.
Foreign aid to Pakistan OVER $900 million each year.
Aid to other countries not listed above--BILLIONS EACH YEAR.
Who among us can justify giving away all that money while cutting Social Security?
The focus about this country is not about Obama's critics. The focus is the U.S. Governments policies at home & around the world.
I await your response.
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