Real Thinking

Again, you need to READ writings of former Black Panther Party people. And do not mistake the ORIGINAL Black Panther Party founded in 1966 with the "new" Black Panthers started in the 1990s, and connected to Farrakhan's Nation of Islam. Read PANTHER BABY by Jamal Joseph. Read THE GREATEST THREAT and MARSHALL LAW by Marshall Eddy Conway. Read TO DIE FOR THE PEOPLE and REVOLUTIONARY SUICIDE by Huey P. Newton. Check out Bobby Seale's SEIZE THE TIME. Learn about the original 10 point program of the Black Panther Party. Political education, peoples clinics, and various other community building programs of the original Panthers may still be relevant.

-Savant

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In fact, Timothy is quoting from THE TRUMPET OF CONSCIENCE which I read several years ago, and which I drew upon in my recent book on King. Interestingly enough, Dr. King wasn't so much condemning the hippie as he was condemning the racist, imperialist society which begat their brand of alienation. They, the hippies, chose to disengage themselves from this corrupt society. King thought that was understandable. So do I. But disengagement is not a solution. King had more chance of working with radicals--leftists whom you despise---who fought racism, exploitation and imperialist war--than with hippies who simply wanted to drop out. But he didn't use the word "hippies" with contempt. They weren't enemy. Hippies weren't bombing churches in Alabama. Hippies were dropping bombs on Vietnam. The enemy were the racists, the imperialists, the militarists and global capitalist predators. Regarding King's analysis in TRUMPET OF CONSCIENCE, I agree with most of it. And since you--who expressed SYMPATHY for the reactionary TEA PARTY movement, its white militia contingents notwithstanding---you need to be called on your likening of the Occupy MOvement with the hippies.

The hippies didn't occupy, they mainly withdrew. I know of no exact parallel between a 60s group and Occupy unless it's certain tendencies within the SDS. Not even exactly that since SDS, and white new leftists generally were white university students and intellectuals, while Occupy also included workers, trade unionists, small business folk and (at least in Bmore) some members of the activist Black churches and the NAACP. Occupy was simply not very well organized. But unlike the hippies, they were ACTIVIST. They didn't withdraw or disengage or retreat to hippie communes. And they were opposed to many of the same people to whom Dr. King, the Panthers and Stokely were opposed: corporate capitalists and opportunist politicians selling our the interests of the American people to the highest bidder. But given your support the reactionary, racist tinged Tea Party with their pro-corporate orientations, these simple facts would be a little too much for you miniscule mind to comprehend.

-Savant

 __________________________


In my mother's house, Dr. King was next to God. But she also admired Stokely and Rap. But after Dr. King was killed mother became very, very pro-Panther. Some Panthers--especially one who was a student in Biology at Morgan State College (now Universit), became a friend of the family. Another Panther brother worked in the same factory as did my mother. And they organized right around the corner from us. Mother would even cook and bake things for the breakfast program. Even now you can find a closet full of old Black Panther newspapers. I've little doubt that I would have joined had I been older or if the BPP could have sustained themselves as a revolutionary movement for at least 10 more years. Assdurratin claims that the Panthers were criminal organization---which, incidentally, is also the line spouted by the FBI in its COINTELPRO propaganda. But I know that it wasn't until the Panthers were gone that my neighborhood was again beset by dope dealers and pimps..(And there is now evidence that the Panthers were right in their claims that the CIA was peddling dope in the hood, and in a lot of other places as well. You can find an article by one of the NY 21 called "Capitalism + Dope=Genocide").

Now that's a good question. I think our economic empowerment and self-determination at some point will require the transcendence of capitaliism itself. But black owned enterprises may improve our situation, especially if they take the form of democratic cooperatives. I suggest democratic cooperatives, even though I don't exclude private enterprises, because in such institutions the AVERAGE person can play a bigger role in securing his/her well being and that of the community. I really would like to see folk take a second look at W.E.B. Du Bois's DUSK OF DAWN, and especially the chapter entitled "The Colored World Within." I've recently published on book on the philosophical thought of Dr. King, and I noticed that he seemed to promote both support for Black enterprises, and the formation of cooperatives among poor and working class Black folk. King discusses some of this in STRIDE TOWARD FREEDOM and WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE: CHAOS OR COMMUNITY? I also think we can revisit some of the projects of SNCC, and even the 10 Point Program of the Black Panther Party. One sad thing about what happened after the 1960s, is that too much of the political ane economic thought and proposed programs were forgotten. But some of it is still relevant, even more relevant TODAY than in the 1960s.

 -Savant

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I neither glorify nor deify anyone. But you glorify and deify not only Nkrumah (who deserves respect, not adoration) but even such ersatz ideas as the Stalinist and Nazi "superstate. " I consider that the Black Panther Party from maybe 1968 until about 1972 was the most ADVANCED movement in Black America that had any popular support. Brother Stokely eventually fled in 1969--which I can understand given the murderous activities of the FBI--and when he returned he had essentially a non-program, as far as Black America is concerned--i.e., the unification of Africa under scientific socialism. Try organizing a movement in Harlem, Chicago or my native East Baltimore with that. You can hardly organize Africa with that. By the way, if they don't do political education in the AAPRP any longer, then it would have been due to disrupters like you. In fact, you claimed to have been a member of the original BPP and the AAPRP. I was too young to join the BPP. and opted not to join the AAPRP in the 1980s. But noticing your disruptive, Cointelpro style tactics in AA Forum, I would not be surprised if YOU were a COINTELPRO agent in BOTH the BPP and the AAPRP.

 -Savant

 ________________________

 Notice that I was speaking of Fannie Lou Hamer, Shirley Dubois and Harriet Tubman. I was speaking of Ella Baker and other righteous sisters in the struggle. And Assdurratin calls them "low life scums who happen to be female." And he wonders why I think he's a reactionary, a misogynist, and maybe even a COINTELPRO style operative. If you look as COINTELPRO documents who see FBI directives including tactics of personal defamation, character assassination, and disinformation. I wonder if SNCC, with which Ella Baker help start was a scum organization? Oh, but that would then include brother Stokely. Strange I definitely recall seeing a photo of Fannie Lou Hamer on the same platform with Malcolm X! And we know how HE has been defamed by enemies of Black folk and of freedom. What kind of game is Abdurratln playing? And why does Abdurratln continuously resort to PERSONAL defamation? Can't carry a debate on RATIONAL grounds. His boisterous methods readily remind one of the tactics used by Nazi Brownshirts in their path to power. They remind me of the methods of Stalinists which Richard Wright described in AN AMERIAN HUNGER. I don't think this is just a coincidence. The Panthers used to say about someone with Auntie Abdurratln's characteristics that he was "either a pig or a fool." I've long known he was a fool, and now I'm suspecting him to be a pig.

 -Savant

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By the way, you woulld probably appreciate a new book entitled "IN A SINGLE GARMENT OF DESTINY: A GLOBAL VISION OF JUSTICE. It's a new volume of Dr. King's writings and speeches specifically focusing on his analysis of INTERNATIONAL conditions and relatiions, ?There is an especially sizeable collection of his work on Africa's struggle for feedom and her resistance to colonialism and imperialism. There especially alot on the fight against Apartheid in south Africa. He even has an article entitled 'My Talk with Ben Bella." And therer is also discussion of the situation in Asia, Latin America and the Caribbean. I saw this information in my campus email this morning. I will get a desk copy--one of the perks of academic life. But the cost is only $16 for the paperback edition published by Beacon Press. Beacon publishes a lot of progressive and left-of-center stuff. I normally wouldn't suggest a book which I've not yet read. But my inspection of the table of contents mainly show works by Dr. King which I'm already familiar with. And they are edited by Dr. Lewis Baldwin, and AA king scholar and professor of religion at Vanderbilt University. it may be even cheaper on Amazon.com. Ok, I'm outta here. Later on, bro.

-Savant

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I guess the first thing we have to keep in mind is that Africans, like all other human beings, are not an monlolithic mass. Just as some African American men and women can related to Africans, befriend them, and in some cases LOVE them, the same can be said for some Africans in relationship to us. Some African-Americans are distrustful or even hostile toward Africans. Some Africans feel likewise. There are no doubt a lot of reasons for this, and it would be worthy of some examination. I've both male and female kindred who are married to men adn women from the Motherland. While I don't justify distrust, prejudice and the stereotyping of folk, there's anough blame on both sides to make one pause before passing judgment. But again, what I would like to know are the circumstances of the persons who do joined in vows of love across the awful Middle Passage. Why are they different? Education? Upbringing? MOST Black men are neither in prison nor dying of AIDS. That's a racist myth. Equally stupid is the myth of the black "welfare queen" popularized during the Reagan era, and alll the other trash about Black women. That this sort of trash is spouted by white racists like "bergermeiste r" hardly surprises me. But it does both me that I hear similar racist stereotypes--ant-B lack racist venom--spouted at each other by some Black people in Topix.

-Savant
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Now there's a lot packed into your post, and I will try to respond to different parts of it in different posts, and maybe different times. First our different approaches to racism. There is a greater tendency among Black Americans than among whites to see racism as an INSTITUTIONALIZED system of power and privilege, not just prejudice and animosity. For us, it's just a matter of white attitudes, but more fundamentally white power and privilege. Whites may encounter Black animsoity, as we certainly have encountered their seven more. But whites do not experience any oppressive Black power because, unlike imperial white power, it mainly does not exist. Blacks in America--as numerous surveys have shown--are also more cognizant than whites of an unjust class structure as well. but it is mainly among the more "radical " or revolutionary African Americans that there is a clear connection in mind between RACISM and CAPITALISM. Dr. King, Malcolm X, the 1960s Black Panthers, the African Blood Brotherhood, Dr. Du Bois, Angela DAvis, Cornel West, Savant and many others see racism and capitalism as being inextricably interwined. Hence they commonly come to the conclusion that the fight against racism cannot be definitively won without winning the fight against capitalism as well. Moreover, some sutdies show that this attitude is at least implicitly present (though not well thought out) among AA working class and poor folk than among our Blacik bourgeois and petty bourgeois. Nonetheless, the "leadership " of the Black community, and most of the leaders of the Civil rights Movement were men 9sometimes women) of our petty bourgeios and bourgeois strata. This deeply affects strategies for fighting and perceiving racism politically

-Savant

 _____________________


 Now there's a lot packed into your post, and I will try to respond to different parts of it in different posts, and maybe different times. First our different approaches to racism. There is a greater tendency among Black Americans than among whites to see racism as an INSTITUTIONALIZED system of power and privilege, not just prejudice and animosity. For us, it's just a matter of white attitudes, but more fundamentally white power and privilege. Whites may encounter Black animsoity, as we certainly have encountered their seven more. But whites do not experience any oppressive Black power because, unlike imperial white power, it mainly does not exist. Blacks in America--as numerous surveys have shown--are also more cognizant than whites of an unjust class structure as well. but it is mainly among the more "radical" or revolutionary African Americans that there is a clear connection in mind between RACISM and CAPITALISM. Dr. King, Malcolm X, the 1960s Black Panthers, the African Blood Brotherhood, Dr. Du Bois, Angela DAvis, Cornel West, Savant and many others see racism and capitalism as being inextricably interwined. Hence they commonly come to the conclusion that the fight against racism cannot be definitively won without winning the fight against capitalism as well. Moreover, some sutdies show that this attitude is at least implicitly present (though not well thought out) among AA working class and poor folk than among our Blacik bourgeois and petty bourgeois. Nonetheless, the "leadership" of the Black community, and most of the leaders of the Civil rights Movement were men 9sometimes women) of our petty bourgeios and bourgeois strata. This deeply affects strategies for fighting and perceiving racism politically 

-Savant

 ________________________

 Excellently stated...and has taught me that maybe the bulk of AAs are stagnated "at best" because of in-house sabotages (outside of ignorances to capitalistic motivation of racism)...it is also probably due to the Black elite benefiting at the expensive of the Black masses (in a similar way of how the While elite manipulate the White masses)...hence why many may push the idea of "class over race"...and purposely becoming an obstacle for "Black" strategies to dismantle institutionalized racism & sexism (and I only stress Black because Blacks suffer the most,and others are too ignorant & maybe fearful to understand they suffer as well from allowing a racist & sexist system to continue).... Challenging such an "infrastructural' is a bit tricky in a capitalist society..where the masses of both white and Black citizens have been completely convinced (brainwashed) to act accordingly to "basic" racist & sexits ideas and expected behavior. Class-divided societies , be it based on race or gender, is always a breeding ground for social inequalities to the detriment of the masses and the economic benefit of the selected "favored" few.

 -Proud Sis

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 Yes, and we need to take a look at the new shapes that racism and classism are taking since the 1960s. Michelle Alexander's THE NEW JIM CROW and Angela y. Davis' stuff on the "prison industrial complex" are things worth looking at. Again, I will be back when I can get a break.. Off to class. Later on, Sis

 -Savant

 __________________________

 Have a great day...and when you get a chance..can you share some reflections and insight on what you believe is preventing (Black) Africa today from establishing independent power in connection with racism, sexism, etc.(I know corruption is HUGE).. and your feelings on how we are approaching our problems...I do believe we can learn from one another.. What are your ideas on how to build MORE relationships (including romantic) between AAs and Black Africans...Do you feel that African descendants should one day make an exodus back to Africa (like Israel)? -Proud Sis

Revolutionary Insights

Savant wrote: BLACK JACOBINS by CLR James. Just came across it as I was looking for another book in my library. Brilliant Black Caribbean historian, philosopher and man of letters. And a revolutionary. 

 Me: You are correct on CLR James Brother. Not only did he advocate the West Indies to experience independence from colonialists. He advocate revolutionary policies to benefit black humanity. For that, his work and actions ought to be acknowledged prodigiously. One thought comes to my mind. Many establishment liberals condemn black nationalism in a harsh fashion, because they believe in the lie that black nationalism is solely reactionary, limited in scope, and without a plan. That is a lie since there are different variations of nationalism. Many black nationalists are progressive, international in scope, and very wide range. In other words, black people should control their own communities, but that is not enough. Black people should not only control their own communities, but we as blacks should work to radically change society so no one can economically exploit humanity (and we have to prevent black people from creating a reactionary program that will exploit other black people in an evil fashion). Black people have the right fairly enhance our community via revolutionary solutions. So, we should always know about such revolutionaries like CLR James.

 -By Timothy

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In the CPP, we are now in the process of setting up a Program to educate and train our membership to keep them informed of current situations and the political history of the African Nation, especially modern post independence political history. This would include the entire Caribbean Community. Such a program will include much that has been listed in this thread about reading. First now, I am reading George Padmore. I find it interesting that he failed to give Haiti its rightful place in Africa's history as the first African republic ahead of Liberia. But Haiti played a major role in African political consciousness worldwide. For example, the Maroons signed a peace treaty with the British in Jamaica. But when the Haitian revolution occurred, the Jamaicans repudiated that treaty and went to war to free the slaves in Jamaica. We need to know these type facts.

 -Abdurratln

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We need to learn these facts. Haiti was the first black Republic in the Western Hemisphere. Haitian created a very successful revolution against French imperialists, but many Western nations harmed Haiti via trade barriers, coups, and subsidy policies that harmed the Haitian economy even in modern times. Today, some Brothers and Sisters are in many organizations fighting the neoliberal policies harming Haiti. The Maroons were heroic in fighting for liberation. They utilized guerrilla warfare strategies and excellent maneuvers to fight the oppressor. We have to fully understand our history from the actions of George Padmore to others. Malcolm X was right in saying that he have to understand history, our culture, and African political developments. In the final analysis, we are all Africans as Kwame Ture said on many occasions.

 -By Timothy (Me)

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Yes. We are talking about an attitude, an attitude of respect for our ancestors and our history. Our people have always called ourselves Africans. The first indisputable example is probably Olaudah Equiano. Another would definitely be the First African Baptist Church. Nowadays nobody even knows that the first Baptists called themselves Africans. Most of that history has been hidden from us. Another example is the African Methodist Episcopal Church. It is not until Jesse Jackson that we have come to deny such history on such a massive scale. That is why you do not see me recommending comic books here. We need to know our history. I did not recommend Amos and Andy type films in the black films discussion. One of the first ones I recommended was the Senegalese brothers performing a Grammy Awards winning concert with Egyptians.( http://www.youtube.com/watch... ) They proved the same kind of Pan-Africanist love between the Egyptians and West Africans that Kwame Nkrumah proved when he married an Egyptian Christian girl. She is sleeping besides him right now in a place of honor in Ghana. Her daughter Comrade Samia Nkrumah is likely to be the next president of the Republic of Ghana.(Week 7 – March 3rd: MIDTERM & Screening of Basil Davidson’s “That Magnificent African Cake” March 10th: Spring Break – NO CLASS Week 8 – March 17th: Colonial Rule: Assimilation vs. Indirect Rule & The Second World War PAPER PROPROSAL DUE Shillington: Chs. 24, 25) How can we in the USA ignore this? Every African in America ought to be donating money to Samia's campaign to be president of Ghana.

-Abdurratln

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Brothers and sisters, today, it is with great honor excitement and pleasure that I present to you one but two books of speeches by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie:

 1) Selected Speeches of Haile Selassie: http://www.ewfaddis.org/selected-speeches-of-his-imperial-majesty-haile-selassie-i/

 2) The Lion Roars: His Majesty's Speeches: http://rastaites.com/speeches/speeches.html .

 I came upon these two books by "At the League of Nations, June 30 1936" which is contained in Selected Speeches. When I googled Selected Speeches, The Lion Roars also appeared. It is amazing that we as African intellectuals have never heard of these two books before now. The power and dignity of His Imperial majesty's speech to the League of Nations, to the "whole world" cannot be denied. It shows Africa's role as peacemaker to the world and its role as founder of the League of Nations and later of the United Unions. These are must reads for every intelligent African on earth. Both books are free downloads as African classics. I do not care what your particular ideological or religious persuasion you hold, there is something in these two books for you. But they are particularly relevant to Pan-Africanism and the Civil Rights Movement. When Haile Selassie spoke to the League of Nation, the world has not been the same since. This is considered to be the beginning of the African Revolution.   .

-Abdurratin
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And on the basis of those two experiences you ask "why are black guys ALWAYS broke"? I've a question: "Why do people continue to make these STUPID GENERALIZATIONS about Blacks on the basis of their limited experiences?" Also, why are so many of these kinds of threads concocted anyway? Do you know about any issues of more fundamental importance? Have you even heard about the Moral Mondays movement, which may be the beginning of new progressive movement in the South such as we've not seen since the 1960s? Do you understand the implications of the new restrictions on Black voting rights recently upheld by the Supine Court's gutting of the Voting Rights Act of 1965? In fact, have you even heard of the Voting Rights Act, or know its significance and what is at stake with its loss? Have you ANYTHING on your mind besides dating?

-Savant

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will be ordering this book.
-Dragaonpat


As a Black woman you might find especially interesting Lynne Olson's FREEDOM'S DAUGHTERS: UNSUNG HEROINES OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, 1830--1970. Also check out Barbara Ransby's ELLA BAKER AND THE BLACK FREEDOM MOVEMENT: A RADICAL DEMOCRATIC VISION. And also by Rosa Parks, ROSA PARKS: MY STORY. There a Black Woman philosopher named Joy A. James whom I've worked with, and who has written a lot. Among the titles that come to mind are RESISTING STATE VIOLENCE, TRANSCENDING THE TALENTED TENTH. She wrote an essay whose title I forget, but which was interesting in its critique of white supremacy, It appeared in George Yancy's anthology WHITE ON WHITE/BLACK ON BLACK. Joy James also edited a volume called IMPRISONED INTELLECTUALS. She, like Michelle Alexander and Angela Y. Davis have been devoting a good deal of attention to the critique of the racist "prison industrial complex." She also edited a volume of Angela Davis' writings called the ANGELA DAVIS READER. In that volume is found Davis' essay (written in 1971 from prison) about the role of Black women in the slave community. And, of course, there are the works of Angela Davis herself, among which are WOMEN: RACE AND CLASS, ARE PRISONS OBSOLETE and THE NATURE OF FREEDOM AND OTHER DIFFICULT DIALOGUES. Davis also has an interesting study of Black women and the blues music tradition. But I don't recall the exact title. 
-Savant

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Anti-Black racism in UK and other parts of Western Europe is probably more connected with colonialism and slavery in British (or other European) territories external to the country. Slavery was in the Caribbean. not in the national boundaries of England. In America, racism developed in the context of racial slavery bred internal to the country--beginning in the English colonies that would become the USA. Blacks were not a servile population living elsewhere. Black existed in the millions within the USA. Whereas your country practiced a racist colonialism in Africa or the West Indies, the USA created a racial caste system which led to a kind of "domestic colonialism" within the body of the USA. The racial paranoia is much deeper here than in England or France because the perceived "black threat" has always been much closer. And the measures taken to contain and subjugate us has unavoidably led to deeper fear (or contempt) on the part o dominant whites, and resentment and anger on the part of subjugated Blacks. In the 1800s, a slave revolt in the Caribbean, however frightful, was for an Englishman troubles that happened "over there in one of our colonies." A slave revolt in the USA might for a white American mean an immediate danger to his own life and property. Nat Turner slew his master and his master's family. That, for American whites, happened "here"-- -not "over there." Even when anticolonial movements happened in British colonies, then didn't mean London was under siege. In America, we might well take our protests to Washington, the nation's capital. Also, no European country ever created anything like our system of segregation, Jim Crow, political disfranchisement. At least not within your national borders. IN America, we had a system very similar to the apartheid regime in South Africa. This history means that racism, and racial paranoia is much deeper in America than in England or other parts of Europe. I don't believe--though I'm unsure--that you have segregated neighborhoods in England. You can still see the racial divide in neighborhoods, schools and churches in America. I recall a French visitor with SOS who in the 1980s was shocked to find that 20 years after the civil rights crusade most American neighborhoods were still racially stratified. And it struck me as a surprise that this would be a surprise. America and Europe are different worlds. 

-Savant

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http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TKKMMJHT2MVFU7IKH/p48

Yes, CLR was a great historian, a philosopher and man of letters. He was also a devoted revolutionary. I've heard him speak a number of times, the first time when I was about 18 or 19. I was so impressed that I went searching for his books. BLACK JACOBINS was initially the only one I could find, but it was enough to get me started. Later I discovered SPHERES OF EXISTENCE, BEYOND A BOUNDARY, NKRUMA\H AND THE GHANA REVOLUTION, and numerous other of his works.(I also discovered his correspondence with Dr. KIng when I was working on my King research. CLR James saw a striking similarity between King's methods and Nkrumah's "positive action."). James was a REVOLUTIONARY NATIONALIST---yes, the are reactionary nationalists like Papa Doc, Mobutu, Karenga, etc--but also revolutionary nationalists like Malcolm (especially post-NOI), Lumumba, the Panthers, and CLR. James himself. He had no problems being a Marxist and a Pan-Africanist, a scholar in what might now be called Africana studies who also was knowledgeable of Western and Eastern history and culture as well. When he spoke at my undergraduate school we young brothers and sisters (I was 18) stood and gave him a long standing ovation. The old man was awesome! I was at a meeting in Delaware of a conference called "Black Philosophers and the Black Underclass," when suddenly we got news of his passing. We all had to have a moment of silence, and even the very talkable Cornel West kept quiet. I must return to my study of CLR JAMES, in particular to his NOTES ON DIALECTICS.

-Savant

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That is great to know. Ironically, when Venezuela's leader was Hugo Chavez, Chavez made many progressive policies that actually improved Venezuela's economy, literacy rate, educational rate, and other social conditions in that nation. Maduro holding up a copy of Malcolm X speaks signifies the power, reach, and influence of the black liberation struggle in the world. Many of us comprehend the international impact of the Black Freedom Movement of America. One issue is that we have to counterreact the false stereotypes that the Western corporate media place on black Americans. Black Americans are diverse and we are highly intellectual. So, this struggle is an international one as Malcolm X realized. Also, Malcolm X realized the truth that the struggle of people of color against Western imperialism is an INTERNATIONAL one (and he acknowledged the Afro-Brazilians and those of black African heritage in South America fighting for revolutionary social change too).

-By Timothy (Me)

 __________________


Maduro is trying to maintain the revolutionary path pioneered by Chavez and the Bolivarian Revolution. From what I hear and read from articles, and from info I've gotten from a colleague (who's really into Latin American revolutionary movements), the Chavistas are creating new experiments both in socialism and direct democracy. She reject both capitalism and the old Bolshevik centralism (which has wrecked so many socialist efforts in the past). And the movement seems to be wildly popular among the poor and working class masses (and part of the middle class and intelligentsia). This revolutionary class movement also has some very definite racial dimensions. The poor there belong to all "races," but are disproportionately Black, Native American, mestizo, etc. The privileged classes are disproportionately (if not totally) white. The most fervent support for the Bolivarian Chavista movement comes from the poor, and therefore predominantly Black (or mulatto, mestizo) parts of Venezuela. The class struggle on the part of the rich has aspects of a racial struggle, or so I've heard reported. However, the ruling class in Venezuela has not been able to dupe poor white Venezuelans as the US ruling class has so often duped poor American whites. So you don't see large numbers of poor white Venezuelans flocking to the Right under racist motivations as we've seen poor whites do in the USA for centuries. The poor whites are also down with the Chavista revolution, and mainly stand side by side with African descended Venezuelans.(Of course, Latin American racism was probably not as rigid as the US version. Nothing quite like Jim Crow or the "one drop" rule. Race doesn't always trump class though racism is very present and malevolent as always). Yes, I think we need to support the revolutionary movement in Venezuela. And as long as Maduro keeps to a democratic revolutionary path of popular power, he will have my support and solidarity.

 -Savant

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 What we do is critique and protest ths system of racial injusticed in its CONTEMPORARY forms, though we acknowledge the historical character and formation of such injustices as well. Unfortunately, the racism that blinds so many whites and erodes their critical faculties renders them incapable of critical thought, and makes them see our critiques and morel protests as merely a reflection of their own childish behavior of "whining. " Usually, when a white person accuses us of whining we can pretty much size him/her up as a bigot whose bigotry has eroded his critical faculties.

-Savant

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Great Words from Great People

The best way to stop talking about COLORISM,is to make sure,every type of color of WOMAN,MAN, etc, are CELEBRATED EQUALLY, on NATIONAL platforms. To continue to pick one and exclude another,only reinforces the stupidity that, one color,being celebrated 90 percent of the time,is the epitome of man made beauty when, in fact,its truly a sickness.All you have to do is look at the comments,especially from males who actually believe the stupidity,and openly disrespect others who do not look like females on this cover. Respecting BROWNER GIRLS and their beauty,seems to be a foreign concept for one reason alone.That being, they are stunning and exotic but,the world truly has a hard time excepting it because,their beauty stands out :-) When you have a race of people,who range in so many beautiful colors, why continue to push the worlds idea,which of us as black people,preferably lighter hues of us,is only worthy of being beautiful, be considered exceptable as black men and women on national platforms? Again, black people,come in an array of colors.

Multifaceted. From light,to medium,brown,and dark, (meaning, black is black)and as a black person with the power to control images,from artist,magazine,media etc, each has a responsibility to equally show the differences in our beauty EVERY, single chance we get to do so.PERIOD. Why? Because, we all have family members who range in the spectrum of light to darkest.If you are suppose to be about the love of people,why are you having such difficulty,showing that to others who look like you? The article states that its refreshing to listen to an album thst does not refer to women as bi*&%#-. Well, their are plenty of artist and albums that do so as well but, the implication could be confused that, darker,browner girls dont mind being called out of their name?Given the fact that this man is internationally known,cover art and images are the first thing noticed. Although I understand what he is trying to say,we are not there yet by a long shot.IMAGES and the LACK OF ARE INDEED POWERFUL! The separation of what's black or not black enough, is what's causing the confusion.

-Courtney


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The problem is the assault and hatred of Dark Skinned Black women. As a Black man this protest pleases me, because this shows Dark skinned people are beginning to embrace and love ourselves as well as call out other Black people (usually men) who hate Darker skinned women (despite them, their mommas and family are dark too) and demonstrate it with their work and lyrics.If color does not matter than the question begs where is the Dark skinned Black woman. All of the women on his album cover LOOK THE SAME. 
-BlackHeywood

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 Blackheywood, its why my avatar represents what he should of did.(in my opinion) But, he has the right to his message. All Im saying is, i'm tired of this discussion.Their shouldn't be any separation between us as light ,brown, darker. They keep the divide going but we could kill colorism, if artist like him, who have the power behind them, decided to represent all of us, every chance they get.

-Courtney

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We COULD kill colorism but that would involve rejecting society's fascination with European features/going against ideas that have been implanted by whites. It would involve recognizing the importance of images and how they can be damaging or uplifting. We would need a larger awareness of who we are and what we are capable of and there are far too many who are blissfully living in their ignorance to have this happen. We also have to recognize that there are stigmas attached to each shade. Regardless of the shade, we have ALL experienced some form of hatred--not just from whites, but from ourselves.

-Mirah318

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But, he has the right to his message Correct and we Black people have the right to challenge and confront him for his self-hatred. All Im saying is, i'm tired of this discussion Sadly that is our burden as Black people in America, educating, challenging and bringing to light racism no where it comes from when it pertains to us. Their shouldn't be any separation between us as light ,brown, darker. They keep the divide going but That is part of our oppression and part of the psychological damage done to us as a people. As racist as the music business is why would a Black person exclude another Black person is my question unless it's self hatred. Pharrell pulled the same thing racist have done to us historically and he should called out about it. CourtneyrrR it is less than 50 yrs since we gained our Freedom as Black people, plenty of psychological damage has been done to us and passed down the generations. Part of healing is learning to Love and Accept ourselves and that's what's happening now. We are as Dark skinned Black people are growing to accept and love ourselves. I cannot apologize or Chastise Black folks for doing what we are finally doing for ourselves.


-BlackHeywood

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Like many have stated here, its sad to see because , we truly do not understand how powerful we are together. We have to take it upon ourselves and learn about ourselves. The true identity of ourselves. It's the only way to turn this around.
 -Courtney

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This is the ramifications of our centuries old oppression. Once you own folks mind, you own them. That is our problem many of our minds are owned by White Supremacy.
 -BlackHeywood

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Check out this post from Jamilah Lemieux regarding the album cover and the reaction from some black men:

http://the30before30.tumblr(dot)com/post/77931264731/you-dont-see-us-but-we-see-you-updated

And this article about the oh-so-fabulous Lupita Nyong'o and growing up dark skin:

http://www.clutchmagonline(dot)com/2014/02/lupita-nyongo-talks-dark-beauty-admits-prayed-lighter/?doing_wp_cron=1393613366.7908110618591308593750

-Mirah318

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And yes, it starts with US and OUR COMMUNITY! I feel that it is far time for US to get it together and LOVE instead of hate and take each other down. Before we can be good enough to reach out to others, we must take care of OURSELVES FIRST. I think God wants us to be good stewards over what he gives us. This means I have to attend to my African community first, before I run to China and try to take care of their problems. If each community and the people in them were trying to take care of their own, we would not have half the problems. Like I said, it starts with loving yourself and others around you, we should be so over the house slave that told on others in order to please his massa. With some mentalities like that, we will NEVER SUCCEED! Sidenote: I heard Lupita was at the Essence Award because she won, but she said when she was younger, she prayed for lighter skin. that to me is so sad! Even if I once felt that way, which I HAVE NEVER, PERSONALLY, I would NEVER MENTION IT! White people think we all hate our skin, when WE DON'T! Lupita is just as pretty or PRETTIER than Halle Berry.

-msjames210
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Me: We have to clean up our HOUSE before we see true liberation. With the situation in our community, I will never go into a fantasy and try to disregard the struggle of black people. I like the fact that you called our community the African community, because we are all Africans. We have to need to have the KNOWLEDGE OF SELF and love for our black heritage first. If we can't respect ourselves, we can't respect others. That is the reality of the situation. Obviously, Lupita is a very beautiful Sister too.

-By Timothy

Yes she is! Something I have noticed over the years,is that some black people are busy taking care of everyone else's community but their own. People that have resources in money in our community will go hire some other young people from other communities and enable them to do better, while our children go to pot. Not fair and definitely not cool. Whenever i am blessed enough to hire staff, I promised God I would look out for family first, then my community next, and this is a promise I plan to keep.

-msjames210

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Thank you those are the Black men who I said were psychologically damaged and who suffer from self hatred. Great Article.

-BlackHeywood

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Thank you SIS for posting these links.Damn, why can't we get articles like the one you just posted, to address this colorism issue that simply wont go away? I thought what this woman said. (black woman, lighter skinned black woman :) said, was so on point. I appreciate the link and I believe ,every black man, person,should read what she has to say on this topic and this cover. “When I was a teenager my self-hate grew worse, as you can imagine happens with adolescence. My mother reminded me often that she thought that I was beautiful but that was no conservation, she’s my mother, of course she’s supposed to think I am beautiful. And then…Alek Wek. A celebrated model, she was dark as night, she was on all of the runways and in every magazine and everyone was talking about how beautiful she was. Even Oprah called her beautiful and that made it a fact. I couldn’t believe that people were embracing a woman who looked so much like me, as beautiful. My complexion had always been an obstacle to overcome and all of a sudden Oprah was telling me it wasn’t. It was perplexing and I wanted to reject it because I had begun to enjoy the seduction of inadequacy. But a flower couldn’t help but bloom inside of me, when I saw Alek I inadvertently saw a reflection of myself that I could not deny. Now, I had a spring in my step because I felt more seen, more appreciated by the far away gatekeepers of beauty. But around me the preference for my skin prevailed, to the courters that I thought mattered I was still unbeautiful. And my mother again would say to me you can’t eat beauty, it doesn’t feed you and these words plagued and bothered me; I didn’t really understand them until finally I realized that beauty was not a thing that I could acquire or consume, it was something that I just had to be.” Nyong’o said that she held onto her “self hate” and did not entertain the idea that she was beautiful until she saw Sudanese supermodel Alek Wek gracing catwalks, magazines, and even winning Oprah’s praise.“I hope that my presence on your screens and in the magazines may lead you, young girl, on a similar journey. That you will feel the validation of your external beauty but also get to the deeper business of being beautiful inside. “There is no shame in Black beauty.” Lupita Nyong’o

-Courtney's Words (to my Homegirl Mirah)

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I wanted to cry reading her words. I remember the first time I saw Alek Wek. I was jealous of how beautifully flawless she appeared to be. To me, her beauty was unmatched. To read that Lupita struggled with those feelings of insecurity really hurt. Sister to sister, there are a lot of issues regarding beauty that we can solve ourselves independently of everyone--including our men. I make it a point of telling other sisters and especially our young women and girls just how beautiful I find them. It is nothing to see a young girl or a sister and say "You have it going on!" Look how much that validation meant to Lupita from Oprah and it wasn't even directed at her at the time. If we all took the time to bolster each other instead of allowing pettiness, insecurities and ignorance to get between us, imagine how fantastic black women would really be! -Mirah318

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 Sister to sister, you are 100 percent right.I remember watching Vanessa Williams strut across that stage when she won Ms America, and being so proud of her and acknowledging her beauty as a black woman. The thing is, we all should have equal representation of our beauty and colors. Our validation as black people, black women(light,brown, dark) should not be separated.This nonsense was born out of slavery but, we have the power to take control over how we view each other, treat each other,when we decide to do so. We simply can't afford this man made fight against each other. You are being so proactive when you take it upon yourself to recognize other sisters and what they bring to the table.SO, I THANK YOU for seeing that. WE ALL , should take cue from you and do the same. YOU SAID "If we all took the time to bolster each other instead of allowing pettiness, insecurities and ignorance to get between us, imagine how fantastic black women would really be!" Exactly SIS, UNSTOPPABLE. :)

 -Courtney

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 My weekend is 'bout to start ;) BUT I wanted you to read this: Edited: check your email for the link. Clutch, Ebony, and (yes even) Madame Noire are also decent. Jamilah Lemieux writes for Ebony and I think the absolute best of her. Text ya later.

-Mirah318

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Just got in and will def read it if you are co signing her. Thank you for the info. Text ya later. :)

-Courtney

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Why do some Black men HATE Dark skinned Black women is the real question.This message is to all the Black folks including the author from Brother Malcolm x: Malcolm X: Who Taught You To Hate Yourself? Who taught you to hate the color of your skin? Who taught you to hate the texture of your hair? Who taught you to hate the shape of your nose and the shape of your lips? Who taught you t...o hate yourself from the top of your head to the soles of your feet? Who taught you to hate your own kind? Who taught you to hate the race that you belong to so much so that you don’t want to be around each other? You know. When some Black folks adopt the "European Standard of Beauty" they are sending a clear message that they HATE THEMSELVES.

-BlackHeywood


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This album cover shows the way our society views beauty. Notice the white woman is in the front? then the ambiguous looking women are behind her,darker skinned black women are no where in sight.

“G I R L” is actually an ode to women. A gorgeously stunning woman with no race, body type or hair length to amplify or demote her worth."

really now, then why do all of the women have the same body type, hair length, and almost the same skin tone? If it is not about race, body type or hair length, then put a big woman up there, put a short haired woman up there, if all of these things don't matter. But see they do matter,

"The conversation becomes personal for me, especially when the girl in question looks an awful lot like me."

wow that must be so tough to see someone that looks like u and not be excluded, it becomes more personal for a lot of black women when we are not shown and when we don't see women that look like us. The only time we see women that look like us are in slave movies, maid movies, etc.

"In fact, they’re even more offensive to the beloved first African American president, who was actually raised by his white mother and family in Kansas. He admits that he learned about blackness from “Soul Train.” Blackness is not a convenient game based on color and hair texture."

blackness is not something u learn about through a tv show, it is something u live, it is something u feel, it is something that cannot be erased, it is something that is passed down from ur mother, Obama's mother is WHITE. it is fine to be biracial, but when biracials ignore or try to tell black people or darker skinned black people to stop whinning about not being represented, or when biracials represent blackness that is a problem.

"But you’re still winning in your cool girl shades and your fierce red lip. You’re standing next to genius, while the others can only witness."

could there be any more shade? who are these others? are they the black women that are tired of being excluded because of their darker skin while the ambiguous looking women can say well we are standing here not u, but btw i'm black too. Black people come in different shades but there is a problem when only one shade is being represented. what about the medium brown shade, the dark brown, and the blue black? I hardly see those shades represented why is that?

-mstoogood4yall

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When I read the article, I read it the way you did as well. Like an underhanded dig or something. As if black women, brown and dark black women, dont mind being called B*&^%es and H*&^%. . Just decided to get to the root of the issue instead but, you broke it down the way it should be. :)

-Courtney

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mstoogood4yall: • 3 days ago "And it was a reminder… again… that my blackness is less than and certainly not equal to those around me, because of my skin color. And my hair. And the way I speak. And what I listen to. And being constantly reminded that, “She’s only half black.” As though my well rounded opinion based on my nationalities and my extensive education on race don’t matter" If u are reminded that ur blackness is less than and not equal to others(black folks) around u, then ask urself if that is true, why is it that people that look like me are shown more than the blacks that u said u are not equal to? I have no issue with biracials being shown as beautiful, but when they are championed as the beautiful black woman, then yes there will be outrage. Ask urself, why don't they ever have biracial women depicted as the beautiful white woman? whites will not allow it, they will not allow biracial females to compete against white women, but they have no issue with them competing against black women and being seen as the standard of black beauty. As black women we don't fit into the mainstream standard of beauty and darker skinned black women don't fit into either the mainstream standard, nor the black standard. People do not respect blackness, u cannot claim black is beautiful yet only accept it lightened, erased, or replaced.


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 CourtneyrrR:

Ask urself, why don't they ever have biracial women depicted as the beautiful white woman? whites will not allow it, they will not allow biracial females to compete against white women, but they have no issue with them competing against black women and being seen as the standard of black beauty. WOW!! POWERFUL mstoogood4yall. SPEAK THAT TRUTH.!!!! As I always say, we are not competing against one another, light, brown and dark. When any one of us are openly disrespected and pitted against one another, we should all collectively speak out against it and shut it down. Its the only way to do away with colorism, along with education. Never allow anyone to openly disrespect light,brown, dark black men and women ,without showing them that , they are wrong. Its about support. I am a browner girl but, that should not exclude me from standing up for light and lighter black men and women, when they are disrespected .And I feel the same way if it were light black people around ,witnessing a browner and dark black person being disrespected in front of them , in print ,media or other. OPEN your mouth and let people know, it wont be tolerated. Whether it be coming from YTS or ourselves. This bullC&^% has to stop.



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But it is commonly the most politically conscious African Americans who do have an interest in Africa and the Struggle there as well as here. In the 1930s, there were African-Americans from Harlem who even volunteered to fight with Ethiopins against the Italian fascist invaders. Malcolm X was a Black nationalist, but also an internationalist and Pan-Africanist, deeply concerned with and conscious of the Struggle in Africa. And we cannot forget Marcus Garvey, whose Movement encompassed at least one million Blacks in America when there were perhaps only 10-million of us. Garveyism was a form of Pan-africanism. And not until the 1960s would we see a movement at all comparable in scale. Similarly, you find in the writings of Kwame Nkruman, Amilcar Cabral and others a deep awreness of the relevance of the Black Movement to the African Revolution. Dr. King was a guest of honor with Kwame Nkrumah at the celebration of the winning of Ghana's independence from British colonial rule. (I seem to recall that in CLASS STRUGGLE IN AFRICA, Nkrumah argued that 25 millions Afro-Americans were, as far as he was concerne, also part of the global African Revolution. I first learned about Lumumba from my mother).) In the 1970s there was a group called the African Liberation Support Committee that did educational work and mobilization or popular support for the struggles against white supremacist colonialism in Angola, Mozambique, Guinea-Bissau and other regions. Kwame ture (AKA Stokely Carmichael) was an organizer of the ALL AFRICAN PEOPLES REVOLUTIONARY PARTY. (He had earlier been working as a member and leader of SNCC during the early to late 1960s) And, of course, there was the anti-apartheid Movement during the 1970s, 80s, 90s. (dr. king was speaking out against Apartheid in the early 1960s). When Nelson Mandela visited the USA in 1991 (after his release from prison), over 100,000 African-Americans in Harlem turned out to greet him with a hero's welcome. Black church choirs sang the Black national anthem of south Africa. And when Nelson Mandela began enumerating some of the criminal injustices inflicted on black South Africans, many AA folk in the crowd (noticing similarities to their own sitution) shouted "Same as here, brother. Same as here!" I don't know how many in that crowd of 100,000 had close personal contact with Africans. I'm sure some did, and do. But a lot depends also on the development of a political consciousness even if one has little or no contact--recogniti on of a COMMON STRUGGLE. SOME Africans and African-Americans have such a consciousness and recognition. Others do not. But it is usually from the most politically aware members of each group that such consciousness is evident.

-Savant
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 Abdurratln knows NOTHING about King's philosophy or theology. In fact, he is philosophically illiterate. No big deal. King DID claim socialism--democratic socialism. And I've not encountered King scholars who contest that point. Even in a letter to his fiancée Coretta he states OUTRIGHT that he is of a socialist persuasion. He states the need to move toward Democratic socialism in one of his later meetings (in Frogmore) of the SCLC. His autobiographical notes reveal his interest even in traditions of democratic socialism in Scandinavia If Assdurratin simply wanted to say that KIng was not a MARXIST, I would not object. Dr. King WAS NOT a Marxist. Duh.....PERSONALISM, his basic philosophical position, is a form of IDEALISM, not Marxian dialectical materialism. But you don't have to be a Marxist to be a socialist or communist. Early Christians were often socialists and communists.(The Acts of the Apostles reveal as much). Many people involved in the German Peasant War were Christian socialists or communists. Dr. KIng was a Christian, democratic socialists. Even his STUDENT diaries from the late 1940s--early 50s reveal as much. It is true that given the right wing red baiting of King and the Movement, King was cautious about advertising his socialist convictions. Most Americans are too politically and philosophically uninformed to distinguish between the Christian and democratic socialism of King (and many others within the democratic left, both religious and secular) and the authoritarian dogma and practice of Marxism-Leninism. King didn't want to help the Right in discrediting and possibly destroying our Movement before our people had gained even BASIC civil liberties (let alone socialism). But socialist King clearly was, though also OPPOSED to Marxism.

 -Savant
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 Actually, Africans (like African Americans) are at varied and unequal levels of moral and social consciousness. Your positive description of Africans certainly fits someone like the recently deceased Madiba. It hardly fits Chief Butheliezi, or Mobutu or those scoundrels who killed hundreds of thousands of people in Rwanda. the same can be said of African-Americans. We have people like Rosa Parks, Dr. King, Fannie Lou Hamer and others. But also thugs like Little Melvin, opportunists like Clarence Thomas and agent provocateurs like Gene Roberts. Whole groups of people or ethnic groups are not superior to other ethnic groups or human collectivities. If one person is superior to another, then it is due to his or her qualities of mind and character, not to whether he is African, African-American, or what have you. -Savant

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Go read MARSHALL LAW and THE GREATEST THREAT, and you will know some of the books he read. Nkrumah, Lenin, Fanon, Malcolm, Che--these are just a few authors virtually every Panther (now former Panther) I ever met has read. I made mention of the fact that Marshall Eddy Conway was one of the LEADERS of the Black Panther Party of Baltimore. You've said that you were once a member of the Black Panther Party; and though I was too young to join even I know that regular, daily study and political education was a REQUIREMENT, especially for Panther leaders. You ought to remember that if you were a member.

-Savant

http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TKKMMJHT2MVFU7IKH/p45#c997

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Read WHY WE CAN'T WAIT. You will be surprised to learn that Dr. King promoted civil rights, economic rights and even Affirmative Action (on BOTH race and class grounds). The economic agenda was laid out more thoroughly in WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE, CHAOS OR COMMUNITY? You might also find informative his TRUMPET OF CONSCIENCE. Liberals and conservatives BOTH oversimplify King. King was actually to the left of both liberals and conservatives. However, that also means (since liberals are to the "left" of conservatives), that King was politically more distant from conservatives than from liberals. Mainly, liberals weren't radical enough. King was a REVOLUTIONARY, albeit a nonviolent revolutionary Christian.

-Savant

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 It was believed in the early 20th Century that the Black population was dying out. Many believed that we would not survive the 20th Century. Obviously, those projections were erroneous. Of course, the future is still not certain. But there were 4 millions of us at the end of the Civil War (1865), and 9 million of us when Du Bois wrote his THE SOULS OF BLACK FOLK. There were about 20 million in the early days of the 1960 Civil Rights Movement. There about 45 million of us today. This is no guarantee of our perpetual existence. If we lose too large of our population to the prison industrial complex, our survival could obviously be endangered. If our communities and families disintegrate, we could cease to exist as a people even if we do not become physically extinct. The existence of a people as a people involves more than physical survival. Can we sustain community, a culture, a common identity and common purpose? -Savant

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 WHY WASTE YOUR TIME? I saw the Youtube clip of Sotomayer mentioned in another AA Forum thread. My question: Why do you waste your time on him? Why don't you READ more and pay attention to YouTube less? And if you're going to deal with YouTube, then check out Angela Davis or Michelle Alexander on YouTube. Check out THE BLACK POWER MIXTAPE on YouTube. Check out Cornel West or even AA philosopher Tommy Curry on YouTube. Check out Rev. Barber, spokesman for the Moral Mondays movement for economic justice and defense of our voting rights (which have been eroded by the Supreme Court).. If you feel the need for entertainment, then at least let it not always be MINDLESS entertainent. Why waste your time, Black people. tt's later than you think.

 -Savant

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 QUESTION: Why are you paying attention to this Sotomayor character. Whether he really is a "deadbeat dad" or CIA agent as someone says, he's clearly an EMPTY BARREL. Instead of that idiot (and female equivalents of that idiot), tune into FREE ANGELA AND ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS. Tune into THE BLACK POWER MIXTAPE. (Since so many of you are into Youtube, but not reading, you should know that the very informative BLACK POWER MIXTAPE can be found on Youtube). But why do so many Black folk waste their time on trash?. We have first rate political and intellectual minds that we need to listen to. There was the MORAL MONDAYS demonstrations on YouTube fighting forr the defense of economic justice and our voting rights (eviscerated buy the Supreme Court last Sunday). I'm not big on religion, but Rev. Barber, spokesman of the Moral Mondays movement for justice is worth listening to. Sotomayer and his ilk are a waste of time. Why do you waste your time, Black people? It's later than you think. -Savant

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 I saw that Sotomayor youtube clip someone mentioned in another thread. Maybe folk should spend less time with Youtube and more time studying and thinking about things of substance. Maybe folk should instead of Youtube spend time reading W.E.B. DuBois, Anna Julia Cooper, Angela Y. Davis, Frantz Fanon, etc. Maybe folk should at least spend more time imbiding our Black literary tradition. Then we'd all have less trash on our minds, and the level of discussion and dialogue in AA Forum and elsewhere might be greatly elevated.

 -Savant

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 You know, I've not read Marable's book yet,and I do have reservations given what I've heard. I put it off partly because my recent philosophical research on King took up most of myh free time, but also partly because of what I'd been hearing and reading about Marable's take on Malcolm X. But as a scholar and advocate of revolutionary change I must read it, and also CRITIQUES of it. Probably that will happen this summer when my university closes. I must say that I am surprised at what I've read about Marable's book, but will try to withhold final evaluation until I've studied it. I actually met Marable while I was a student during the 1980s. At that time he was advocating both socialism and revolutionary black nationalism. He wrote an interesting essay called "Black Nationalism in the 1970s" (Or maybe 60s, not sure). In discussion with him while he was teaching at Fisk University (as well in my reading of some of his writings), he was very clear that as far as his assessment of the 1960s were concerned, the Black Panthers--not NOI, not US and the buffoonish Karenga--were the most advanced elements within the Blak nationalist Movement (even though the BPP has its weaknesses). He was stating pretty clearly that he saw the need for a renewal of revolutionary Black nationalism in the 80s and moving forward). But I also heard that in the 1990s, after being with the Ivy League for awhile, he began to change gradually. He eventually all but abandoned black nationalism, and moved from being a socialist revolutionary to a social democrat, and eventually an academic liberal. I wasn't reading Manning Marable much from the early 90s on, so I didn't get to watch his trajectory. Too bad that a potentially revolutionary intellectual has forgone his revolutionary potential. Academia does have its pitfalls.

 -Savant


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