Wednesday, February 3, 2010


OK, so, assuming that your system worked. Here is my fundamental question. By issuing fiat money, you have diluted the overall supply of money, taking it from other people via inflation. This is a given. Because the economy is a closed system, it can only be grown by labour that generates wealth. Printing of money does not create wealth.

So, with that in mind. Pray tell, what is the opportunity cost of your proposal, because I assure you there is one.

And what is the moral cost? Socialism breaks down family structures and morality, moving people from work, saving and local interdependence, towards speculation, gambling, and dependence on the state.

What are the financial and moral implications of your plan? How would your spending be any better than the spending of G.W Bush, Tony Blair, or anybody else? Giving you the power to print money, is that not a moral hazard that would be used by future leaders? What about your posterity?

You fail to understand the difference between spending and lending.

A Credit system is Low interest rate federal LENDING to rebuild the Nation , so an example of a successful policy in regards to this similar to the Intercontinental Railway and TVA would be a Mag Lev as i mentioned.

You issue a contract that is BIDDED on by a multitude of companies with the ability to do something of this nature (Machine Tool Workers) and you LOAN them low interest sovereign credit (LENDING) to the tune of maybe 1% interest and lower.....

Now, in regards to the "Power to Print Money" the American System is run via Congress Approprations of Lending and Treasury Issuence of Credit.

So, the nation would be UNABLE to print money without labour being involved because all of the money printed would be directly invested into infrastructure projects, which directly represent the economy and population as opposed to gold.

In regards to "Socialism" , this is another false paradigm that was created by the powers that be and that is parroted by Austrians (I am not attacking you here), the Government building of Railways, Power plants and Water Treatment facilities is NOT Socialism.

Socialism (As opposed to what we have today, which is the fascist corporatist state) is when the Government Seizes Markets. AN example of actual socialism is Hugo Chavez seizing all of the oil companies in Venezuella.

The American System does no such thing - there is no preventative measures that restrict the private sector from doing what they please in regards to building infrastructure. But the reality of the situation is, as i have said, the Private Sector is bankrupt , unwilling and unable to build the basic neccessaties for an economy to function - so Federal Lending would be the only solution to prevent a thermo dynamic collapse (Meaning, the modern civilized economy would cease to function) of the Nation.

I would just like to add, that the word "Fiat" is such a Dogma these days because it is based on the assumption that "Currency is backed by nothing but the Federal Government's word" -

But if the system were overhauled to that of what we began with, and modernized , "Fiat" money would actually be representative of the Nations economic infrastructure and ability to produce , provide for transportation of , and sell to other nations , physical goods.

I would say that a Currency that is represented or valued per physical labour and a Nations economic output is far more valuable then Gold, which is indeed a piece of metal (Scarce or not) that is incapable of increasing a Nations ability to produce physical goods.

So, in conclusion you cannot put a value on currency (Via Gold), you can put a currency on a Value (The Value being the Economies ability for physical production highlighted by it's underlying infrastructure).

-Revolt 254

In regards to this nonsense that i already disproved, the Government building infrastrucuture, as designated in the Constitution as "For the General Welfare of the people, is NOT SOCIALISM - SOCIALISM IS WHEN GOVERNMENT SEIZES MARKETS.

-Revolt 254

It's not just supply and demand.

It's regulation over the money supply.

There are tons of houses out there! Alot people would like them - but a Depression has been orchestrated by an Empire, based in London......

These actions have NOTHING to do with any such laws of supply and demand, because those laws do not take dynamics into interest.

Math is not Science, the Austrian school of economics does not take people into account or their minds. The Human mind must constantly update their infrastructure via science (New discoveries) as the population expands.

Putting a cap on this is equivelent to suicide of the race, but we need not go extinct because we are running out of Drinking Water.

There is a Scientific Solution that the private sector is currently unable to provide, which is De-Salination of Salt Water via Nuclear Power plants, which has been proven to work in numerous areas. This is one of many examples of how you must take the population into account in economics, not just laws and math.

-Revolt 254


That is exactly why they must be regulated. Specifically, the Private Sector Financiers / Speculators. That doesn't mean that all Regulation is good, it means that parasitical regulation is necessary for any Freedom to be acheived.

What i find very disturbing is, (Not targetting you, because you are obviously aware of this), There are numerous people parroting Austrian Philosphies on the Forum and labeling them as the "Free Markets"......... and Austrian Fundamentals haven't the slightest thing to do with any freedom whatsoever.

Primarily their 2 pillars, which is Gold Must be used as a currency and All Government intervention/regulation is bad for the economy. In addition, they claim contractions of monetary supply are great because everything will just adjust and the dollar will strengthen (As if the markets had an invisible hand!) .......

However, They do not just adjust. People go bankrupt (Farmers foremost) and starve to death, this is precisely what happened in every real Depression in U.S. history - which is contraction of the monetary supply or "Deflation". Austrians would prefer 30% Deflation as opposed to 10% inflation....... because the word inflation is so frightening to them that they ignore what the word DEFLATION would do.

If anyone wishes to see what deflation does, i would suggest looking at the period from 1929 to march 1933 because it resulted in economic collapse , massive unemployment, starvation and breadlines....... the result as of FDR's Inauguration was, the United States banking system was no longer functioning.

As for the use of Gold as a currency, this is another tremendous problem that has nothing to do with "Free Markets". Infact, you will probably become a slave if Gold is used as a currency because there is NOT ENOUGH Gold to supliment the expanding population. This may not have been the case 400 years ago because we didn't have 6.8 Billion Human Beings on the planet.... However, as of now, if we were to enstate a domestic Gold Standard the resulting deflation would essentially bankrupt the nation , making all who weren't elitists slaves to creditors. For instance, think of all the people who now owe debt in the form of mortgages , commercial loans, auto loans, student loans, installment loans, credit card loans etc....

Now, if you enstated a Gold Standard and followed Austrian Contract rules, you would owe *Example* 100,000$ on a mortgage, and your weekly salary would drop from a higher sum (If you were lucky enough to get a job) and would be more like 100 dollars a week. I am sure you can see it would take your entire life to pay off 100,000 dollars and you would likely die before paying it off.

Other problems with the Gold Coin Standard consist of
A) The Gold does not represent the economic or population expansion rate
B) "Coin Clipping" was a serious problem when Coin standards were enstated
C) the elites control 80+% of the world Gold Supplies/Mines
D) Gold Standards make it impossible to recover from a Depression due to lack of or strangulation of currency to rebuild the Nation's infrastructure.
E) The very reason the Austrians say it works which is, "Scarcity" - is the very reason it doesn't work. If the economy is to expand, the monetary base must expand. If the economy is to recover from a Depression the monetary base must expand rapidly so long as it is issued into Productive Scientific Infrastructure that enables the Private Sector to Function. For Example, Without Clean Water, the Human race cannot survive - and since we are running out of Clean Water (For Drinking and Crop Irrigation) , we must develope things to produce clean water such as Nuclear De-Salination of Salt Water, which has been proven to work. This is one of many examples of required infrastructure for civilization to continue to function...... others include:

* Repairing and scientifically updating the collapsing Bridges, Roads , Railways which are needed for transportation of Human Beings and Productive Goods
* Developing new Power Plants (4th Gen. Nuclear and eventually Laser Fusion) to provide power to factories , farms and the like for production
* Mass Transit which is more efficient then cars since the Auto Sector is dead (For years atleast)
* + Any Scientific Creation by use of the Human Mind that would improve living standards and spurr the private sector

The point being, a Physical Economy is based on it's underlying infrastructure. And infrastructure is a Scientific Developement. When population expands, infrastructure must be updated to facilitate that population or you get poverty, and if neglected long enough, genocide. This is why Africa is still a third world continent..... do you see any railways in Africa? Water ways? Means of Power and Transport for any private sector to be able to produce and transport goods?......... We are heading towards that situation if we allow our basic economic infrastructure to collapse...... and if we do not modernize it to facilitate population levels we will not recover from this nightmarish economic meltdown (This is not a Depression , it is a systemic collapse, so we must take all statistical economics and toss them)


What if that person you are targetting honestly earned his income by working his *ss off his whole life? is that still a justifiable approach?

I have a better suggestion - how about we reform our monetary system so instead of a Private Central Bank controlling our entire currency and monetary system, the actual people we elect into office control it?

The Federal Reserve system is loaning money to banks without Permission from Congress or the President, how about we get rid of that system and cut the banks out of the equation, then we replace with a system that invests money, instead of loaning it, into infrastructure (such has high tech railways, agriculture). This will create jobs and give the currency a real instrinsic value because it has been spent or worked into the economy, rather then *Loaned at interest* as the Federal Reserve system does.

Does that sound like a good idea to you?.


What is not great about Printing money out of thin are? Well allow me to elaborate!

When you print money out of thin air it has no value , and the only way to maintain the currencies value in that sort of system is to have Foreign Countries Hold US DEBT Such as CHINA .

However, Foreign countries no longer wish to hold US debt because the dollar is on the verge of collapsing, so printing money "out of thin air" will directly inflate the currency as soon as the currency is spent into the economy.

The banks that are receiving these capital injections are NOT Loaning it to people, they are instead hoarding all of it and waiting to either pay off their Derivative Obligations or Consolidate their competitors. This can be seen already by Bank of America Consolidating Merrill Lynch and Countrywide - and by Wells Fargo Consolidating Wachovia, and by JP Morgan Chase consolidating WAMU.

This means that larger banks are essentially EATING all of there competition, which in turn leads to Fascism.


If you didn't find out yet, Russia has not been a Communist nation since the Soviet Union collasped..... i figured you knew that already...

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