Friday, February 25, 2011

Thoughts on Revolution, etc.

Savant wrote:

Well, King was clearly impressed with Gandhi's capacity to lead a nonviolent movment against British imperialism. I'm not sure how much King was philosophically influenced by Gandhi. From my study of some his work, and works of a few King scholars, it appears that certain trends in Christian theology, Western philosophy and the Black intellectual tradition may have had a deepr influence. But there was clearly some Gandhian ideology which King would have read through a Christian perspective rather than the Hindu tradition which would have been native to Gandhi.
There was apparently an informal community or climate of ideas which some scholars called "Black Gandhism" which may have had an influrence.
Howard University president/scholar Mordecai Johnson apparently aroused King's interest in Gandhi due to certain lectures on Gandhi which King heard while he was still a grad student in Philosophy & Theology.
But I tend to agree with Dr. Rufus Burrows, Jr.(author of GOD AND HUMAN DIGNITY:PERSONALISM, THEOLOGY & ETHICS OF MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR) that the homespun Social Gospel & Personalism of southern Black Christianity as well as systematic Personalist philosophies and social Gospel theologies at Boston University, had more of an influence.
Also, both King and Gandhi were apparently influenced by the pacifist thought of Leo Tolstoy and the famous essay on "Civil Disobedience" by Henry David Thoreau.
And like other Black intellectuals King was deeply inspired by anticolonial movements in Africa and Asia which were throwing off the shackles of colonialist exploitation. Hence his eager visits to Ghana to celebrate its independence under the leadershop of Kwame Nkrumah, and to India to meet some of the men who worked to win India's independence from England.
But with regard to Gandhi, King may have said it best (to the extent I can remember his words without having the text at hand): Jesus was author of the philosophy or PRINCIPLES of nonviolence, while Gandhi was the tactician which showed how it might WORK.
Interesting read :)

MLK & Ghandi were smart men who used other means (examples above)
to fight against tyranny & oppression.
Good thread

-Ms_Deputy

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Savant wrote:

As an educator--with about 80 Logic exams to grade. Yikes!---you're preaching to the choir when you advocate education. But I think we have to look at the ways in which the denial of a quality education to the masses---doubly so for the Black and Brown masses--is part of the process of social control and exploitation. Interestingly, a progressive white teacher mentioned to me (during a visit to Bmore by Bob Moses) that since about 65% of all available jobs in Baltimore are low income, low skill, and with little or no benefits or job security, it would not be in the interest of the ruling class to have the disinherited masses become well educated.
Yet the ideology which especially berates Blacks for lack of education fails to critique the system which denies or dumbs down education.
Perhaps one thing we can look at and consider supporting is the ALGEBRA PROJECT, founded by Bob Moses, and which has gotten the interest of a number of inner city kids in Bmore.
It involves students and their supporters to fight for the right to a QUALITY education as a HUMAN and CITIZENSHIP right.
Nonviolent revolution is also a movement of enlightenment against ignorance.
Also, progressive activists may wish to revisit some of the ideas from SNCC's FREEDOM SCHOOLS, or the Political education (acommpanying history, English, math) that were a part of the community programs of the Black Panther Party of the late 1960s.
We must begin to create new associations, institutions and a new community.
Isn't it interesting that the FBI was more fearful of the Pahther's free breakfast programs, educational programs and clinics than they ever were of the guns and leather jackets?
The Panther's "military" threat was the LEAST of the government's worries...but IDEAS are a differnt matter. And as Victor Hugo once wrote, "There's nothing in the world more powerful than an idea whose time has come."
Could it be that a democratic, COOPERATIVE society achieved by means of nonviolenct revolution is an idea whose time has come?
And, of all places, now seems to be spreading like wildfire in those largely MUSLIM countries which the West has come to see as so incorribly backward?
No kidding, its about the "ruling class" that is creating their own demise. There is something that is God-given in these so-called dienfranchised masses, that whatever they do they take it to another level!
Education is the foundation to a CIVILIZED society!(as you know)but when its coupled with slanted truths and outright lies, voila...the decline of a nation!!!*(more lies got to be told to cover up the previous one).* The Truth cannot be destroyed it HAS to come out, thus the awakening of a nation that is angry because they chose to be distracted with status and materialism.!
Thank God for the enlightenment from Carter G. Woodson who states that "memory is NOT intelligence. Makes one rethink what is "higher education" It definitely is NOT regurgitation AKA "verbal masturbation!"
Home schooling-great alternative*
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/09/133310978/in-co...

Of course its interesting but not suprising...Its sad that quite a few young AA children are not taught the contributions of the Black Panther movement, who ADVOCATED "SELF-RELIANCE" not waiting nor wanting govt. assistance and dared to defend themselves. No problem with that, but it is a problem when you show up this "supremacy myth" and yes, even progressives (some closet racists) will have to share the POWER! When a "people" have been telling lies for centuries the last thing they would want is to be shown that they are a LIAR!!!(Credibility lost) So it has to be maintained!
***
All parents need to supplement their children's education with round-table talks and more reading like we had back in the day, which gave us critical thinking and problem-solving skills...add the elders to the table...(who lived IT), the insight you got, from what the media did not know or wouldn't portray...Awesome!
***
Yes, it is time for nonviolent revolution (360 degrees) not concessions. With the western hand in it, it can't be good! Isn't this the result of their meddling in their affairs anyway?
The u.s. has to be an honest broker and respect sovereignty...which they don't, hence people uprising! I don't trust the u.s. stance on this situation and looking forward for the other shoe to drop. How in the Hell can you say you are for the people in wanting a democracy and its known that the u.s. supported these regimes "for all these years?" There certainly will be a "blowback" to the u.s. Some, not too many, know what happens when a country wants to "nationalize" THEIR resources!
And how backwards can they be for being the "cradle of civilization?" -their words.
The place where empires go to DIE (military strategy), now they won't be getting out of Afghanistan...withdrawl will be delayed. THE END
p.s. Remarks about education were at zew!

'
-Mz Brown


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The educational system generally in the USA is dysfunctional. I'm sure Baltimore is no exception.

I've taught in schools in inner-city, barrio and farmworker areas. Those students are NOT being well-served by the system. They were well-served by me because I made sure they were not given dumbed-down curriculum nor information biased ethnically or by class.

But the system doesn't like teachers like me...

-Barros Serrano

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I don't think that half-starved white women in Appalachia are being pampered or protected by their men. I don't think that working class white women in south Baltimore or south Boston--often tied to men who are abusers, drunkards or what have you--are being pampered or that their claims about oppression are bogus.
They're not being RACIALLY oppressed, but they endure CLASS oppression and sexist oppression inherent to patriarchy. The majority of whites --male or female--are not endowed with expensive houses or luxurious cars. That they are GENERALLY better off than we are, doesn't mean that they are not oppressed at all.
Most white women don't live like Paris Hilton, just as most of us don't live like Beyonce or Denzel Washington.

-Savant
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Well, the corporate media has been whitewashing and sanitizing Dr. King for decades now. Yet it is remarkable just how radical King actually was.
Most Americans have no idea of King's critique of capitalism and imperialism, or his conception of the interrelatedness of racism and economic exploitation. Few have any idea of how radical was his proposed Poor Peoples Campaign. As an undergrad I got a clue when I happened upon Dr. King's speech---made just a couple of months before his murder--which was called "Honoring Du Bois."
And all the research I've done since then makes it clear to me that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a REVOLUTIONARY....certainly no less revolutionary than Malcolm X or Ernesto "Che" Guevara. One doesn't have to advocate violence or be a Marxist-Leninist in order to be a revolutionary.
Dr. King was a nonviolent, anti-imperiaist revolutionary with a vision of a coooperative society.
So let it be! So let it be!

-Savant


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MLK was becoming a "radical" not because of crazy...He knew what he was dealing with!

When you want to use MLK..."don't pick and choose" passiveness...(being beat and still loving those who beat you).

MLK was evolving and knew what he was dealing with!
Do more research on the forgotten speeches and quotes of MLK!

And stop trying to "whitewash" his message!!!

I truly wonder why you don't talk about his speech after he came back from Africa...in which he advocated that Blacks should return to their homeland...OR the "elephant" in the room...Reparations...GTFOH...W ITH
"""YOUR PASSIVENESS"""

STUDY MLK and stop giving us the "watered down" version!

-Mz Brown


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Unique2 wrote:

Now how does any of what you've posted change the fact that all the most important black American leaders have been AA? Marcus Garvey had no influence over the civil rights movement, he was largely a failure and was never the dominar leader of his era the way Booker T. Washington, Frederick Douglass or MLK were.
Like I said before, Marcus Garvey was the Blackman who introduced Black nationalism in America, he also set up the first black shipping company.

First so-called Black president in America is half African half white.
First Black secretary of state, Colin Powell, Jamaican.
First man to introduce the term Black power in America, Stokley Carmichael was Trinidadian!
Fist man to start the NOI was WHITE!
Unique2 wrote:

the most important black American leaders have all been African-American.
I can see that you are not too bright, haven't we already established that this point is not an issue?
The most important Russian leaders have been Russian whites, the most important British leaders have been British Whites, the most Important Indian leaders have been Indians.... Do you see where this is going?... or do you need help with this, let me know if you need further clarification on this point!

Nothing you say will change the fact that there were black people who took part in the American struggle that had parents from outside of America and some, were themselves born outside of America.
I would expect the Majority of leaders there to of been Black American as it is in America, DUH...

Have you got it yet?...


-The Revolutionist


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Unique2 wrote:

Why are African-Americans better athletes than other blacks? Why are African-Americans better singers than other blacks? Why are African-Americans better dancers than other blacks? Why are African-Americans better entertainers than other blacks? Why have African-Americans made more contributions to the fields of science and technology than other blacks? Why have the world's black movers and shakers overwelmingly had a black American bloodline?
The above statement is probably one of the dumbest posts I have seen in a long time!

Every body knows that Jamaican Athletes are the best!..lol
Unique2 wrote:

Do you think it's fair to catagorize black Americans as equals with other blacks since they've achieved more(far more) under near impossible circumstances?(jim crow, segregation, the slave mentality, lynchings, having a minority status in a racist white society etc.)
The answer to this very stupid question is, no one anywhere in the world will see you as superior to anyone except you, reason being; there are 40 million Black Americans, living (for 400 years) in the wealthiest and most resourceful continent in the world and the best you can come up with is "you are better singers, dancers, entertainers, athletes and movers and shakers"!.. LMBAO... that is pretty shameful!!!...

Jamaica is the largest Caribbean Island with well under 3 million blacks living there and they have the best Athletes, plus they even manufacture there own cars there!...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3193275.s...

Only 2 Million Jamaicans, but still we have a Billionaire
Jamaican billionaire donates additional J$105 million to NCU
http://news.adventist.org/2008/02/jamaica-bil...

Our Scientists and professors are receiving awards from even your President (who is half Africa).
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/columns/Clare-...
In fact the most celebrated black scientist is an African,(Philip Ameagwali) not Black American

Also, Jamaican Maroons defeated the British slave masters on many occasions; beat the British so bad, they had to give us our freedom and much land just to keep us from killing there asses!
In 1739-40, the British government in Jamaica recognized that it could not defeat the Maroons,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Maroon_War

If I was a jackass... like you...

...I would argue that Jamaicans are superior to other blacks because there is not many of us, but we have Achieved what we have not by "affirmative action, begging whites to allow us to integrate" or being under the white mans wings for 400 years like you have been, but by standing on our own two feet without having the white man as a security blanket!

However, I cannot argue Blacks from one country being superior over another as we are all coming from the same continent and all suffer our own tribulations, only a f___ clueless idiot would entertain such backward stupidity such as Black superior to Blacks!...LMBAO...

-The Revolutionist


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TruthbknownLDN wrote:

**********STANDING OVATION**********
Excellent post, until our people realise this then we will forever remain where we are.
LOL

No doubt it will fall on death ears though, we have folks amongst us who fail to see that even in Multi-cultural societies or even within multi-cultural religions we are still viewed and treated as second class citizens, even in the work place we are last to be promoted to the highest positions.

Scientists like DNA founder James Watson made comments that Africans are 'genetically inferior'
They even have use the "Bell curve" to try to prove that the black race is intellectually inferior... I have yet to see a Non-Black society where blacks are allowed to excel unchecked.

The black power movement was destroyed by the FBI;
Black unity is public enemy number one wrote:

In August 1967, the FBI initiated a covert action program -- COINTELPRO -- to disrupt and "neutralize" organizations which the Bureau characterized as "Black Nationalist Hate Groups." 1 The FBI memorandum expanding the program described its goals as:

1. Prevent a coalition of militant black nationalist groups....
2. Prevent the rise of a messiah who could unify and electrify the militant nationalist movement ... Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael and Elijah Muhammad all aspire to this position....
3. Prevent violence on the part of black nationalist groups....
4. Prevent militant black nationalist groups and leaders from gaining respectability by discrediting them....
5.... prevent the long-range growth of militant black nationalist organizations, especially among youth. 2
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/chur...

The white Authorities set out to destroy us long term and keep us in a powerless position, they actually saw black unity as a threat to their supremacist order... The document shows that the FBI pitted blacks against each other using some low-life methods...

When you read that document you realise that we as blacks have to be careful that we are not being pitted against each other by whites, because this happens to be their biggest weapon they use against us and always have!

I would rather die a threat to white supremacy than to live forever integrated within a Non-Black society that clearly view and treat us as though we are second class citizens, I still have some dignity and pride left!
Black unity is a must, we will always be at the bottom of the race pile until we learn this!

-The Revolutionist


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Unique2 wrote:

Are you really that delusional? Or are you just ignorant of American history? The overwelming majority of blacks in this country have always been the descendents of North American slaves and not voluntary black immigrants. So it's quite obvious African-American achievements owe there existence to African-Americans.
The individuals you've named simply joined organizations or movements that were already in existence, nothing to write about. Their influence wasn't so profound that black America couldn't have succeed, had they never existed.
All of the most important black leaders have been African-American. Huey P. Newton, Nat Turner, Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., A. Phillip Randolph, Frederick Douglass, Gabril Prossor, Booker T. Washington, Harriet Tubman, the Hon. Elijah Muhammad, Medger Evers, Jesse Jackson, H. Rap Brown etc.
First of all, jackass.

Nat turner and Harriet Tubman were more African than American as both their Grandparents were from Ghana, in fact it is probably likely that those early slave rebels like Gabril Prossor had African grandparents also, and people like Frederick Douglas and Booker T washington were mixed race
So things were slightly easier for them.

The Nation of Islam was not started by an American, in fact it was not even started by a Black man, Fard Muhammed (a Polynesian) was Elijah Muhammad's teacher and founder of the NOI.

Elijah Muhammad started out by joining Marcus Garvey's UNIA Black Nationalist Movement in the 1920's.
Marcus Garvey was a Jamaican; he STARTED BLACK NATIONALISM in America which inspired the birth of the NOI, Black panthers, Civil rights and so on.

Conclusion Most of the slave rebels you mentioned would probably of classed themselves as African due to many of them remembering their African Grandparents... The Nation of Islam was started by a white man!

The Civil rights movement which contained groups such as NAACP, SNCC, CORE and SCLC drew influence from a Jamaican (Marcus Garvey) who first promoted Black Nationalism.
Out of this era was born the Black power movement, a term which was given to America by a Trinidadian (Kwame Ture) leader of the SNCC this term became the black panthers anthem!

-The Revolutionist


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Unique2 wrote:

All the most important black American leaders have been AA. Don't you have some questions to answer?
Are you mentally slow?.. No body ever disputed this; but this has nothing to do with what is being argued here.

This is what you had said;
Unique2 wrote:

Everything black Americans achieved, we've done ourselves.
"Everything you have achieved you have done yourselves".. This is a blatant lie!

I have showed you much evidence to prove this statement was B**L-S**T, I have more examples but I do not have all year to spend dwelling on one subject.
Black America has even had help from white people to achieve, e.g the Black panthers had help from a white group called the "White panthers" a far-left, anti-racist, White American political collective.
Also, the Civil rights movement had all kinds of people involved (including whites).
Blacks with Caribbean and African backgrounds were right there also.
Unique2 wrote:

The large majority of blacks who engaged in the revolutionary war(which lead to independence), civil war(which perserved the union & lead to emancipation) an civil rights movement were African-American.
The majority of American leaders could only possibly be American,(who else could they be?... you are the Majority, no one will argue against that point, However, we can easily argue that many important Americans have family backgrounds other than American... I have already proven this to you, Humble yourself and move on!

End of FCNG story!

-The Revolutionist

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BigsmokE8 wrote:
Black unity is not needed unity in humanity would be great though but racial unity is racist and a stupid concept. No benifits will be achived other than racial alienation.
You know something, it would be wonderful if all races of man could sit by the fire, eating marshmallows and singing Kumb-iar my lawd.

...Back to reality...

Racial unity is our only defence, we will never be looked upon as equal, the reason is mainly because we have come from a mass enslaved continent and we are Naturally different and have traits that other races have and always will view as a sign of racial inferiority.

The Christians came to Africa preaching "all men are equal in Gods eyes"... That didn't stop them from mass enslaving Africans from the 15th century onwards, slavery was even sanctioned by the Churches, Popes and their Kings and Queens.

The same with Islam, if all men were equal in Allah's eyes how come they thought nothing of enslaving others (especially Africans). The Quran sanctioned slavery and has set out rules for the treatment of slaves, Islam used slaves/human suffering to build their places of worship (Mosques)
http://www.historyofjihad.org/spain.html

The United States Declaration of Independence, July 4, 1776, stated "All men are equal" but guess what? Blacks were not included; we were considered Sub-human and were viewed as property.

We can join with whatever race we wish and chant "we are all equal" but I am afraid we are never seen as any ones equal, look at how we are treated and portrayed worldwide, blacks are at the bottom of almost all societies, why?

You are only respected and viewed as an equal in this world if you can pose a threat to others and they are afraid to provoke you, otherwise you are seen as inferior, we are clearly viewed as an inferior race or have I missed something?

When we have a Black Ayatollah, Pope and President (real black president) at the same time, then there will be no need to worry about Black unity but until then we need to stand together and earn back the respect we lost.

-The Revolutionist

Not by Me: I don't believe in a black ayatollah or a Black pope, but I get the message.

By Timothy
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Unique2 wrote:

Discord among those of African descent is no more prevelent than among other races.
No one is disputing discord amongst other races, but they are all capable of putting aside differences if they need to and reach out to their kind throughout the world and work together together towards a common goal, this is what we have yet to show we are capable of!
Unique2 wrote:

Everything black Americans achieved, we've done ourselves.
I will believe this once you have proven it.

The black man who came up with the term "Black Power" was a Trinidadian born called Stokeley Carmichael later named Kwame Ture, he was the leader of the SCNN, An important civil rights activists and an Honorary Prime Minister of the Black Panther party.

It was even a Jamaican women that helped expand the Black panthers internationally!

Connie Matthews was a Jamaican woman who joined the Black Panther Party in Copenhagen when she was working for the UN. Matthews became the Panthers International Coordinator from 1968 – 1971. As International Coordinator, she used her contacts and skills to help disseminate the Panthers’ ideology in Europe, and facilitate trips abroad for Panther leaders to meet with supporters.

Louse Farrakhan is half jamaican with a mother from Saint Kits.

Raphael Morgan the first black orpahdox clergyman in America who resided all over the world was jamaican born.

In fact I could do this all day, it is pretty clear that you are (disturbingly) unaware that Blacks from the Carribean have been moving to America ever since the year 1619;
JAMAICAN AMERICANS wrote:

The documented history of black emigration from Jamaica and other Caribbean islands into the United States dates back to 1619 when 20 voluntary indentured workers arrived in Jamestown, Virginia, on a Dutch frigate. They lived and worked as "free persons" even when a Portuguese vessel arrived with the first shipload of blacks enslaved in 1629. Since Jamaica was a major way station and clearing house for slaves en route to North America, the history of Jamaican immigration in the United States is inseparably tied to slavery and post-emancipation migration.
http://www.everyculture.com/multi/Ha-La/Jamai...

Your theories of American Blacks "doing it all alone" is simply a story you dragged from out of your backside. If you knew even a little concerning your own black history you wouldn't suggest such shiite!
I really hope you do not demonstrate the general Black American mentality.

Civil War, Civil rights, Black panthers, Segregation, Lynchings or whatever, others have been there along the way contributing and suffering the same fates and fighting the same Wars, for the past 400 years!

-The Revolutionist

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the blacksmith wrote:

I understand what you're saying but for me, I've met open minded Africans who are willing to learn about other black cultures. That's why my beef is not with Africans but with a type of African just like I have beef with a type of Caribbean person or type of AA person.
True, however, I have found that the hate filled Africans will hide amongst the good intelligent ones, and when you reach out to those good African brothers and sisters the other African retards are always there to throw stones in your face, these particular Africans even humiliate their own people who are reaching out to us by calling them "slave wannabe's", can you believe these idiots?
So this is the only reason why i have been saying we should let them be to deal with their crap while we (who are linked through a common history) do our thing and maybe later on Pan Africansm may work who knows!
the blacksmith wrote:

The way I see it, it's time for blacks who are positive to stop giving destructive blacks a pass simply because they are black, African, etc... A destructive AA or African or Caribbean is no different to me than a white racist and I will treat them as such. We all should.
A wolf wearing sheep's skin does not make him one of the flock.
I agree with this, you would think that by now we would all have the good sense to ignore those amongst us who are just looking to create more division and hatred, but instead they are are the people who get the most attention!
Those preaching superiority of any kind from a given country, culture or even religion are all destructive people!

-The Revolutionist

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I get the picture - when you cannot refute the truth - just calls names or label a truthseeker. Or classic Barros - make it up as Barros post. Calling an African a Nazi is like calling a car an airplane. Africans has no history of mass slaughtering of Caucasians of the Jewish Faith. The African Halocaust gives any sane African compassionate. Nazis would slaughter Africans if they could. You are just a simple ignorant dude who thinks he is some revolutionary being. You are entertaining though explaining why I read your responses.

-Jermaine Malik Floyd


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Mikah3 wrote:

the concept of community first is NEVER obsolete.....
What are YOU smoking?
Oh, it's community FIRST is it now, suddenly you start to make more sense when called out!

You mentioned nothing about FIRST in your statement, in-fact you said "ANYTHING outside of your local community is (((fill in the blank)))"... It is you who is smoking, or drinking!
Mikah3 wrote:
A person should UNIFY with their family, extended family, friends and the community in which they live.
Because the above people will directly benefit them, making their lives fruitful.
Anything outside of that is (((fill in the blank))).
If our people still have this village mentality it is no wonder so many have a problem with blacks from outside their Neighbourhoods.

We have the internet nowadays so we can forge links with a multitude of people from around the world just as easily as we can unify with those in our family or Neighbourhoods, plus there are many benefits you will receive from communicating with people outside your hood, for a start it can broaden your horizon, open your mind and introduce you to different cultures, this can work wonders for tolerance and unity!

-The Revolutionist


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Unique2 wrote:

There's nothing African-Americans could gain from global black unity. Everything we've achieved, we've done ourselves.
You claimed to be intelligent, yet you make statements like the above!

I can easily prove the your statement to be of absolute nonsense. Many notable blacks who have helped put black U.S.A on the map have had parents from other black countries, example the most powerful black man to live in America was Colin Powell, his parents are Jamaican, People like Ben johnson, donavon bailey, Busta Rhymes, Biggie Smalls, Shaggy, Canibus, Sean kingston, Patrick Ewing, Heavy D, and Actor Lyriq Bent, all have jamaican parents, Christopher Reid (kid from kid n play) is half Jamaican and Alesha keys is also half Jamaica even your president is half African.

If you look throughout the history of America you see freedom fighters such as Marcus Garvey who is described as creating the first mass movement amongst American Blacks, he was Jamaican. I have only picked on a few people with Jamaican parents but there are millions of high achieving or famous Blacks in America who actually have or had parents that are from outside America.
Unique2 wrote:

The concept of pan-Africanism has never been popular with the masses in this country.
You had stated earlier that "black unity was dead" now here you are stating it was never born to begin with.
I agree somewhat, we are still not yet ready for the full blown Pan Africanism even after all this time but Black westerners can inspire each other as we have been doing throughout history all along, without realising it.
Unique2 wrote:

Our people are more domestic minded. Each black group must deal with it's own distinct set of issues.
People like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Marcus Garvey, Nanny and Bob Marley, and other black Revolutionaries throughout the Black Western world were speaking to us all and not just concerning domestic issues, None of us Black fools listened to any of them, and look where it has landed black folks!
Unique2 wrote:

Also there're few races that unify solely and primarily around race. The Taiwanese detest the Chinese, white east Europeans dislike white Americans, Puerto Ricans dispise Mexicans, every Arab country has a border dispute with another Arab country etc.
Families are entitled to have their domestic squabbles, this makes us human, However, when it comes to banding together whites will all form alliances to protect themselves against Arab terrorists, Arabs will form alliance with each other to fight invading white infidels.
And as for the Chinese and Taiwanese;

Taiwan and China sign landmark trade agreement
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10442557

Don't let their little public squabbles allow you to think they hate each other,(they are not like us) they are all holding hands behind closed doors, just like in politics, politicians all hang out together in their societies even though they are in opposing parties!

E.G...

Britain and Germany have been rivals ever since World War II and Hitler, However they are not adverse to working together within the United nations to help towards a common cause also Britain's Royal family have German Roots!.. I can't even begin to imagine the Nigerian and Ghanian army fighting side by side to force invading Chinese armies out of Africa...


-The Revolutionist


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Carol wrote:

Put down the meth, crack, booze before you post...
WW have 99% of positive mainstream media coverage and you clowns can't take Bfs getting a little positive attention on a small message board.
You need to be preaching to them. HYPOCRITE!!!!! Tell them blah blah blah about all complexions are wonderful.
Take your lopsided head, logic and agenda elsewhere.
They don't want society to see a Beautiful BLACK WOMAN with a curvy thick body next to other women because then everyone will notice how defined the BLACK WOMAN'S BODY is compared to others and how a BLACK WOMAN would stand out the most when next to other women.

-Refined

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Savant wrote:

What has REVOLUTION to do with appeasing the oppressor? The latter day MLK was thinking in terms of fighting IMPERIALISM and CAPITALISM. He was drawing connections between racism and exploitation, and between the struggle against colonialism at home, the the struggle abroad.
At one level the issue of violence vs nonviolence is overly simplstic, but is also a question (at least in part) of METHODS.
At any rate, King wasn't slain because he appeased the oppressor. People who appease the oppressor (like Clarence Thomas) are rewarded.
Latter-day MLK how do you fight??? Knowing his stance on the "policies" of america?

Methods...what do you bring to the table knowing that you are the poster of this thread?

SSSSOOO...when a non-violent leader brings about "nonviolence" as a means to reform a society that is STEEPED...in violence...what do you EXPECT!!!???

-Mz Brown

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Savant wrote:

When you ponder only the obstacles and not the possibilities, you defeat yourself from the beginning. Human beings are capable of more than they know. And if everything is not possible, it is only in the STRUGGLE itself that we discover what is possible and what isn't. We must INVENT the revolution, not give ourselves all sorts of reasons why it can't happen. Every tyranny in history which people have sought to end seemed invincible at one time.
The power of American slaveholders seemed immovable. But it was moved. Many people thought that the seemingly impregnable "Militant South" was immovable. But in the 1950s & 60s it was moved.
Even if we considered armed revolutions, the king in France and other lands seemed invincible once. Yet the monarchy fell. Defiance of British rule in America seemed madness to many, as Britain was then the mightiest nation on earth. Imagine Bolivia taking on the USA...or better imagine Vietnam defying America? Impossible? No more so said leaders of the Vietnamese Revolution than your Washington or Jefferson defying England.
I want to suggest that conditions may be ripe, or ripening, for a global revolution against racial, class, and patriarchal oppression; against social and political tyranny. And maybe for the first time in history a NONVIOLENT global revolution is possible.
I don't say that I KNOW this to be the case any more than the insurgents of 1776, or the defiant community in Montgomery in 1955, could be certain of victory. But if we don't make the effort we defeat ourselves before we start.
And if everyone is not "down" for the revolution, than let's begin uniting with all who are.
I am with you on revolution Savant, especially as an entrepreneur who is not averse to risk and understands how this world really works, but HOW are you going to get over the obstacles I'd mentioned to realise these possiblities?
There's a documentary I watched where a conspiracy 'buff' said this in reference to the elite, "Progress is good...controlled progress is better."
Also in G.Edward Griffin's doc,- The Capitalist Conspiracy - Stokely, and other revolutionaries at the time, was quoted as saying that the elite that people seemed to be against was funding the revolution. He said when he found out how this was happening he was quickly removed from SNCC. All am saying is people cannot realise these possibilities or even fathom revolution if they don't know how badly they are being fucked in the first place...
Have a good one brotha. or as we say in swahili 'Siku Njema'.

-Yamato_Kev


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There's an old saying that we should THINK globally while acting locally. We can support progressive initiatives like Bob Moses' Algebra Project. We can support progressive organizations of women in our community. If they don't exist,create them. One has work where one is, but not be limited to where one is.
Some of my colleagues and I are doing some work to help understand and clarify the meaning of the Middle East revolt for our own struggles here. Progressive community associations, unions, churches can be sites where one can act and promote the ideal of a radically democratic, nonviolent cooperative society.
At some point young men may have to refuse to register for the military, and do this in an ORGANIZE manner. Civil Rights organizatons (what's left of them) must EXPAND their vision of what civil rights means. Not only a fight against racism, but also against poverty, class oppression and sexism. Against imperialism.
Black nationalists (what's left of them) need to rediscover the revolutionary internationalist perspective and vision of Malcolm X. and other things. Well, I'm being called to a meeting as I type.
And I will be discussion with colleagues about the prospects of forming a progressive association of faculty, students and "cultural workers" to aid in the struggle for social justice in this area, and elsewhere. First let COMMIT, then in the struggle we will learn how the revolution is made in the very praxis of making it.

-Savant

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Harrisson wrote:

No, Barros, I don't see an Organic Food March on Washington any time soon, either. lol
We all have an agenda or preferred focus. Mine is literacy.
Without a higher level of literacy in both the minority AND majority communities, the elites will continue to flagrantly abuse the civil and economic rights of the underprivileged.
Additionally, a subset of the general literacy problem would be the narrower issue of financial/economic literacy. For example, before the country's real estate bubble burst, many people signed onto ARM (adjustable-rate mortgage) loans without really knowing what kind of potential madness they'd be on the hook for.
Perhaps, this idea of an Organic Food initiative could work within the context of a struggle for ECONOMIC JUSTICE.
As you know, the most advanced elements within our freedom movement in the 1960s were trying to expand the very conception of civil rights to mean not only fight against racial injustice but also economic injustice, the "twin" (in Dr. King's words) of racial injustice.
Perhaps we need to study once more the idea of the Poor Peoples Campaign. Look again at the trade union movement. Perhaps, even the insurgent population in Egypt offer lessons that can aid us in bringing about fundamental social change in the USA>

-Savant

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Note by Me: I don't agree with all of her words, but I know where she is coming from. All black people should be treated equally regardless of skin tone. I don't believe black people of any skin tone need a lawyer to defend their honor. They exist now and don't need me or anyone else to prove their own self worth. Their self worth is apparent. Yet, I am naturally attracted to dark skinned sisters. That's me. Real beauty is shown in the soul of a human being not just in the physical appereance of a human being. For God judges a person's heart not their physical appearance. IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS, WE ARE ALL BLACK (in reference to my people regardless of skin tone) BEING CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF GOD.

By Timothy


I do understand how some black women feel...I support them getting some shine too, but lately I been noticing a number of them trying hard to throw us under the bus..and I will say it's been working. I never saw so many black men proclaim love for chocolate since; but it's hurtful because many of us "piss color" sistas love black men just as much. And if anyone notice we are the least likely to bash black man and date out. I do understand why this is..but a sistah is a sistah and we shouldn't be forcing brothas to choice between us.

-Light skin Sistah

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But why would you want a woman to be submissive? Thats your problem right there. Any respectable man would want a woman who has confidence and has her voice. To say she has an attitude because she doesnt go along with every little thing is wrong. If I were you, I'd be embarresed to admit that. It shows you have insecurity. To always feel the need to be in control and in charge of everything shows you have some deeper issues. And not just with you, Ive noticed that with many other guys as well. Its quite sad.

Reading these types of topics makes me appreciate my boyfriend even more. He really is a rare gem. He wants a equal relationship with me. He doesn't try to run it. Its 50/50.

btw, OP, keep posting the pictures and youtube videos! thanks :)

-Sidney (a woman)


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Barros Serrano wrote:

Racists with disrespectful words are boys, can't be men.
The rest of your post, I don't even understand... exposing people? flaws of certain aspects of the establishment's version... Who knows what you're talking about.
Saying "only whites can be racist" is racist. Is that clear enough?
Fighting disrespect with disrespect isn't my forte. You can say what of what you want. As for the rest of my post, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Kashta mentioned that most people in Congress are of a certain ethnic group (and that people have the right to expose the white supremacist power structure. Not all white people are to blamed for all evils in the world though). Also, integration as it exists now have had flaws. It wasn't 100% perfect. One of these flaws include the fact that integration was exploited by the elite in decreasing the need of black people to have more unified economic power. It was exploited to give people legitimate social rights, but didn't give effective economic justice among people of color. People from across the political spectrum has mentioned this not just Brueh.

You are right on some issues, but people are sick and tired of your intellectual condescension.

Ok, now no human should take rude disrespect. Yet, it is easy to rationally refute an enemy (without strife) or anyone you presumed have wronged you in various forms of communication. I don’t believe in reactionary rhetoric myself.

Now, integration put whites and blacks together in many arenas. I didn’t say that no progress occurred as a result of integration. I did mention that integration didn’t do enough to promote more black businesses and more black cultural cohesiveness to solve the problems of my race. Whites get taken advantaged in society. NO one denies this (no real, rational person omits poor whites suffering hell), but this is an African American oriented forum. The interests of our people in this forum have paramount discussion. Many blacks do realize the suffering of poor whites, but we blacks just believe that that origin of this suffering is from a white supremacist system (that many progressive whites omit).

The corrupt cartel-capitalist system of course reaps benefits among a select minority of human beings. That’s easy to figure out. Effective actions deals with race as a black person, since I’m born black. I am black and there is no way I can’t solve problems without discussing about both race and class. A multifaceted solution is necessary as you mention, but this problem is bigger than class oppression. It’s about a system that treats people of color worldwide in more degrading terms than even poor whites.



-By Timothy

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Timothy wrote:

Fighting disrespect with disrespect isn't my forte. You can say what of what you want. As for the rest of my post, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Kashta mentioned that most people in Congress are of a certain ethnic group (and that people have the right to expose the white supremacist power structure. Not all white people are to blamed for all evils in the world though). Also, integration as it exists now have had flaws. It wasn't 100% perfect. One of these flaws include the fact that integration was exploited by the elite in decreasing the need of black people to have more unified economic power. It was exploited to give people legitimate social rights, but didn't give effective economic justice among people of color. People from across the political spectrum has mentioned this not just Brueh.
You are right on some issues, but people are sick and tired of your intellectual condescension.
Last night, Kashta mentioned Dr. Claude Anderson definition of racism. I was unable to find the definition but I found an episode of Dr. Anderson on Tony Brown's Journal. According to Tony Brown, when organizations like The National Association of Assimilating with Caucasoid Persons (NAACP) started their campaign - their prohibited an agenda of educating Africans in America or for us to build an economic security infrastructure. They instructed Dr. Dubois and others we first had to be accepted by Caucasian Americans and Caucasians of the Jewish Faith. My point - we were doomed before we started because the agenda ensured the reality we see today. As a result, when you post as you do, others foolishly claim you are being racial because they hate the truth your post bears. Therefore, they are reduced to name calling or labeling because they are unable to refute the truth.

-Jermaine Malik Floyd
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It does not sit right with me that Carol who claims she is light complexion acts as if she is a different race because I'm of a darker color. We are both still black.

Also, I do not need the validation from a butter beans and field peas plantation nitwit like Carol to uplift me when I'm not depressed. It's Carol who has the slave mentality of her oppressors. This is why she feels dark skin women feel left out. We are not, we are happy within the skin we are in. Don't let anyone tell you different.

Timothy wrote:
There is nothing wrong with a black woman showing strength. Some dudes confuse standing up and strength shown by a woman as equated to having a bad attitude. Also, I've seen some WW say disrespectful comments behind people's back, act in a socially aggressive way, and possess a false sense of a superiority complex. Now, we shouldn't be color struck among our own people. My mother's side has a lot of light skinned people and my father's side has a lot of dark skinned people. My brothers are in a wide spectrum of skin complextions. We are all in this together (regardless of our skin tone) and all us ought to exist in a profound sense of unity plus Black Love.
I think that we should treat our own people as individuals.
Well said, we should not base beauty on skin tones. This thread should celebrate all women of color. What's more important is what is on the inside and that is from the heart.
-Ashira


____________

I don't believe it's anything personal. But surely you can somewhat understand how SOME dark skinned bw feel. If you'd been pushed in the background and told that you were less, you might be a little testy too, even if it's against other bw.

NO, it's not lightskinned bw's fault and NO it's not fair to lightskinned bw and NO it's not good for our community as a whole. But it is what it is. And I'm not light or dark. I'm in the middle. So it can't be said that I'm partial for either light or dark.

What we as bw need to do is all start embracing each other and stop letting the divide and conquer (that our enemies have been pushing on us since the old slave days) succeed. Because at the end of the day, both dark, medium skinned and light blacks are still oppressed. And it does us no good for one group to hate on the other.

And YES INDEED, many of us need to stop being color struck. There's nothing wrong with liking a lightskinned black EXCEPT when you do so because you feel their somehow better because they aren't "all" black or they don't look "all" black.

-TheHardTruths


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Well, there's the poisonous culture of consumeerism, the ideology of possessive individualism. and the whole idea that anyone who isn't "successful" is himself/herself at fault for lacking "drive", intellgence, etc. It's what Dr. Du Bois in BLACK RECONSTRUCTION calls the "American Assumption." All this must be overcome. We've become so alienated from even the notion of coummunity that ordinary civic engagement with one's neighbors is now regarded as an odd activity. Even rent and waistline parties that were so popular in inner city communities when I was coming up, have now become far less common.
Part of the process of making a revolution--nonviolent or otherwise--is the CREATION of COMMUNITY. Within the creation of community and the cooperative spirit, one already finds the seeds of REVOLUTION in society which estranges people from each other, and reifies human relations.
It is of no small importance that the FBI feared seemingly harmless ventures as community theatre or societies of poets. Can you imagine COINTELPRO infiltrating societies of poets?
It is no coincidence that the FBI feared the Black Panthers's breakfast programs, political and cultural education initiatives, and community clinics more than they ever feared the Panthers' guns.
The authorities knew very well that a community organization with a few shotguns and leather jackets were no threat to the existing order with its massive military and paramilitary forces.
But the IDEAS that the Panthers were spreading, and the EXAMPLES of COMMUNITY solidarity and self-determination---these were DANGERS that the ruling classes could not ignore.
Yet what could be more NONVIOLENT than a breakfast program to feed hungry children whom the system has abandoned? What could be more PEACEFUL and than EDUCATION program? But an education program which transcents the limits of the established corporate school system, which invites people to look at the world in NEW WAYS which break with the capitalistic worldview, and clinics which (like breakfast program) depends on SELF-DETERMINED community support--these were clearly revolutionary challenge....a challenge which threatened to win millions away from old ideas which uphold and legitimate the status quo.
Ideas are more powerful than bullets.

-Savant

______________________________


Savant wrote:

Perhaps the Revolution will spread to Syria....though I'm not so sure that the Syrian people are as united as the Egyptians have proven to be.
Rumor has it that the mullah despots are getting a little nervous in Tehran--hopefully, for GOOD REASON!!!
¡├ôrale!¡Abajo los mullahs!

Oh hell I've got a long list... USA is on it... people! ENOUGH ALREADY! INSURANCE bureaucrats decide your medical care! Millions line up in emergency rooms to cost the taxpayer 4x as much as otherwise... the middle class is clinging by its fingernails to the edge of a precipice (called poverty)... USA employers ALMOST ALL OF THEM won't pay a decent wage but will out-source and use illegal labor to make sure they don't have to... more people without proper medical coverage lining up in the emergency room...

Our media is corporate schlock; our schools are dumbed-down beyond all belief...

HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH YET LAZY FAT YANKS??? Get off your a___, the Egyptians are now making you look bad, as already Mexicans, French and others have. Move it!


-Barros Serrano

___________

i was referring to blondegirl who also believes we are in a global system of white domination (from her handle i assume she is white). It is a difference of opinion between you and me and certainly no reason for you to resort to racial slurs against me. Nonwhite people need to learn how to disagree with each other in a civil matter. And again i have explicitly stated that not all white people are racist time and time again. I think you are missing the ball in erradicating injustice if you do not remove white supremacy. You being of indian descent should know this with your land being taken by brits and an apartheid system being set up. Again i am your friend not your enemy no matter what you think.

-tek_knowledge


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Savant wrote:
That is a question with which Dr. King struggled during his entire life as a Movement leader.
But is REVOLUTION possible withut spilling rivers of blood? Or are revolutions ALWAYS bloody, as Malcolm X seesm to imply in his famous "Message to the Grassroots" speech?
First, what is a revolution? A revolution--unlike rebellion or Reformisn--is a FUNDAMENTAL transformation of any entire social order, an entire poliical and economic order. It also entails a radical CULTURAL transformation, and a transformation even in day-to-day interhumean relations.
And there must be, as Dr. King argued, a "revolution of values" as well as insttutions.
But can that be achieved peacefully? In particular, King came to see racism as inseprably tied to ECONOMIC EXPLOITATON. But to overcome that implies the transcendence of capitalism itself---a "radical redistribution of economic power" were the words I recall from one of King's speeches.
But can it be accomplished by NONVIOLENT means?
A non-violent revolution is the ULTIMATE IDEAL that we all should aim for. But how ACHIEVABLE it is in REALITY? I'm not so sure.

Call me cynical but time and time again, history as shown that the major revolutions have all happened with bloodshed and violence. I think partly because the people that want a revolution and change are TIRED and FRUSTRATED and that inevitably leads to anger, hate and violence against their oppressors. Or you have the oppressors feeling threatened and they use violence as a means of subjugating those that want change to put them in their place.

However, I still believe that it CAN be done. People need to have a common goal, and a worthy enough cause to fight for. History looks back on those that have fought their battles without using violence in a heroic light- people like MLK, Gandhi, etc

It can be done, we just need to strive for it.

-kemi8


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blondegirl214 wrote:
Hey Kemi; how ya doing? This isn't directed to you actually- Its to everyone.
Affirmitive action. This country had to enact a law to FORCE business owners to hire non-whites.( and i bet that just about half killed them to do that- gritting their teeth when they signed that one in) Now doesn't that tell you something?
They say that they aren't racist- oh hey look, non whites (and ww) get preferential treatment with this affirmative action- wtf are they whining about? They are unable to see that we wouldn't NEED affirmative action if people were treated equally?!
So if I get a job due to affirmative action; and then I get treated like sh___ if others find out. So without it , i get no job (screwed), and with it i get the job, but the environment i work in changes to a hostile one against me (screwed again- but with pay if i can last). Lots of getting screwed here; and I don't mean the good kind :)
And the biggest racists are all wide-eyed innocents:"what? I'm not racist- you just want to blame me! I'm fine- everyone is just fine- quit whining."
LMSWAO! It would be funny if not so sad.
I know right?
Its absolutely ridiculous.

Its the same people that point blank declare racism to be over are the SAME ones that are happy to turn around and use race as an excuse for when minorities don't behave according to THEIR pre-conceived notions of how people should act.

And even when they do bring up affirmative action as an argument, they conveniently forget that white women are the majority that benefit from it.

They're ridiculous


-kemi8


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crammasters Sep. 8th, 2010 at 6:16 pm
@ Cali
the IR-loving folks need to take their complaints to the same place they took their love, money, time, care and concern. If u are sexing a Asian, Hispanic or white folk, why are u bringing all your complaints back to black folk?

because that black folk KNOWS them NON-Black folks don’t give a d___how they are treated,

and if any gullible, love-everything-but-a-black folk, kind of black folk don’t believe what i said is true, try this experiment:
1. take that “ain’t no black folk winning an Emmy” to the Korean community and see how far u get
or the Hispanic or white community and see how far u get…

you make your bed, lie in and deal with it, and once you are gone, STAY GONE
and if they mistreat you DEAL WITH IT
because i’m just not interested in that information…

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sassy_gemini Sep. 13th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
@dis_bi_guy- LOL! WOW… I’m not sure if that was a compliment or not… but OK!
@ Cali- Exactly…. It’s not the first time someone has tried to use that one it WONT be the last. If you have to use someone’s hair to make your case that’s a shame! Completely disregard all the truth in my post… Check out my page and attempt to look and/or sound intelligent by pointing out my hair. It’s not even true @ that… But that still made my blood BOIL lol.
Ppl will not get the point no matter what or say or do. No matter how many facts are in their faces. It’s not about Blacks going against Blacks… And I will point out ANY nonsense said by ANYONE Black female or Black MALE. If she had never said that date outside our race BS, I would’ve been on her side! But that is not the case here. Standing up against racism in Hollywood should always be done… not just at one’s convenience.
@stormy- No one said they can decide who you date… I couldnt care less… Just dont try to recruit me in the BS… I wish ppl would read and stop putting words in my mouth.
With that being said… I’m out. Much love Cali and you others who speak truth…. I’m sure I will be seeing you again ha ha!

http://newsone.com/entertainment/casey-gane-mccalla/regina-king-blasts-the-emmys-in-blog-white-as-ever/comment-page-3/#comments

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CaliFemme23 Sep. 12th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
sassy_gemini, APPLAUSE!
Permed or relaxed hair has NOTHING to do with what you are saying here! You keep on speakin sister! Mofo’s have to find SOMETHING to get at you with when they can’t refute what you have to say otherwise! You are a gorgeous black woman….Keep doin what you doin sis….



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