While it is, to many of us, irrefutable that W.E.B. DuBois was a brilliant scholar whose contributions to the bringing forth of awareness about pan-Africanism (through his activism, writings,mentoring,etc.) should not be discounted, it is rarely acknowledged by many of us that we need to perhaps reexamine and reevaluate the views set forth by W.E.B. DuBois in many of his works and elitism within pan-Africanism in general.
To this day, we can still hear many of our people who are considered "enlightened" speak about the "talented tenth", a concept that was popularized by W.E.B. DuBois (The full text by DuBois about the Talented Tenth can be viewed here: http://teachingameri...sp?document=174). However, this "Talented Tenth" concept was infested with elitism as, in my humble opinion, DuBois himself was also for much of his life as one who claimed pan-Africanist.
When elitism is embraced in pan-Africanism, the result easily becomes likened to a bunch of African people in a slave ship in which most on the higher floors of the slave ship look down on their brothers and sisters on the lower floors of the slave ship talkin bout they got da best seats. A slave ship is a slave ship is a slave ship. No African on that slave ship is free and the just as the different floors divide a body of people who are all in the same boat" (slave ship), our many illusions about who we are or who we are not keep us, though we are all in the same boat, separated in our minds. Separate, divided, and defeated.
Instead of embracing elitism, we need to try harder to embrace one another. Instead of forever highlighting our differences, we need to try harder to identify our commonalities. Instead of not wanting to learn what we think we know about each other, we need to try harder to listen to one another. Why are we working against each other instead of with each other? Do we not know that regardless of our seats, oceanview or otherwise, our destination is common? No matter where we physically come from, no matter the nation, the continent, the amount of money we have or do not have, we are Africans and our destination is common, our destiny is one, we are bound to one another, regardless of if we acknowledge this or not. If we don't find it in our selfish minds to overthrow our separatist thinking, then we deserve to keep living exactly the same way that we are living all over this globe, divided and defeated.
There is a proverb which suggests that two men in a burning house must not stop to quarrel. As there is hardly any proverb without double meaning, the most urgent meaning behind this proverb, in my opinion, is that there is a burning house to be concerned about, a matter of life or death to be concerned about; the situation is one of the highest level of urgency and the survival of both depends on their response to this urgency. If we are in a burning house, which is more practical for our survival? To help each other to escape the burning house or to argue about who left the pot burning on the stove? Every second counts. On another note, let me tell you, Brothers and Sisters, even the highest floor of an unchecked burning building will eventually burn right down just as the lower floors.
By the same token, the multitudes of enslaved Africans on a slave ship must not stop to quarrel but instead they must unite and organize whatever insurrection is necessary to liberate themselves.
Let us check the levels and reprogram ourselves for a better tomorrow.
Tichitt Walata (Ancient Ghana)
Tichitt Walata is the oldest surviving archaeological settlements in West Africa and the oldest all stone base settlement south of the Sahara. It was built by the Soninke people and is thought to be the precursor of the Ghana empire. It was being settled around 2000 BC. One finds well laid out streets and fortified compounds all made out of skilled stone masonry. In all, there were
At its zenith of influence Timbuktu was ruled by Mansa Musa who was black. He happened to be Muslim. All the grand construction in Timbuktu took place as a result of his leadership during that time.
Herodotus: The Histories, c. 430 BCE, Book III.
.....After forty days journey on land along the river, one takes another boat and in twelve days reaches a big city named Meroë, said to be the capital city of the Ethiopians. The inhabitants worship Zeus and Dionysus alone of the Gods, holding them in great honor. There is an oracle of Zeus there, and they make war according to its pronouncements, taking it from both the occasion and the object of their various expeditions....After this Cambyses [King of Persia] took counsel with himself, and planned three expeditions. One was against the Carthaginians, another against the Ammonians, and a third against the long-lived Ethiopians, who dwelt in that part of Libya which borders upon the southern sea... while his spies went into Ethiopia, under the pretense of carrying presents to the king, but in reality to take note of all they saw,....
THE LAND AND ITS PEOPLE
.... Nubia was a land of great natural wealth, of gold mines, ebony, ivory and incense which was always prized by her neighbors.
Nubia is the homeland of Africa's earliest black culture with a history which can be traced from 3100 B.C. onward through Nubian monuments and artifacts, as well as written records from Egypt and Rome.
Figure 3: Decorated pot, Meroitic Period, 1st-2nd centuries A.D.
THROUGH THE AGES
.....Nubia was known to the Egyptians as "Ta Sety," the "Land of the Bow," because of the fame of Nubian archers....
....By 800 B.C., Egypt had fragmented into rival states. In 747 B.C., the city of Thebes in southern Egypt was threatened by northerners, and the Egyptians called upon the Nubian king for protection. The Kushite king, Piye, marched north from hiscapitalatNapata,rescuedTheb esandreunified Egypt. For the next 100 years, Kushite kings ruled both Nubia and Egypt. This era was brought to a close by the invasion of Assyrian armies in 663 B.C., and the Nubian king fled south to his capital at Napata.
By 200 B.C., the capital had shifted yet farther south to Meroe, where the kings continued to be buried in pyramid tombs and to build temples to Nubian and Egyptian gods in a hybrid EgyptianRoman-African style. Roman historians record the skirmishes and treaties which marked the relation ship of Roman Egypt and Nubia.
Great post. It would be nice to know more about the people who built Tichitt Walata. I'll bet there is a lot more undiscoverd archeological sites that we still don't know about. We need more archealogist to show an interest in West Africa.
THE JOKE IS ON YOU!
In the twentieth century it was the Liberal Progressive Era that benefited most Americans.
The New Deal, The Fair Deal, The GI Bill, and the Great Society.
That’s American history Ya Bush Dope Ya!
Where were you educated?
The school of Rush "From Drugs" Lying Corporatist Limbaugh?
The Tea Party sold out to Wall Street
GOP freshmen, big-bucks donors hobnob at resort
March 16, 2012 / http://tinyurl.com/85yw3o9
Sandy Adams (Fla.), Quico Canseco (Texas), Rick Crawford (Ark.), Bob Dold (Ill.), Sean Duffy (Wis.), Stephen Fincher (Tenn.), Mike Fitzpatrick (Penn.), Daniel Webster (Fla.), Mike Grimm (N.Y.), Nan Hayworth (N.Y.), Jim Renacci (Ohio) and Cory Gardner (Col).
You say nothing but uneducated inanity. I don't care about L3 being closer to M and N lineages. Ethiopians poses the deepest ->strictly African<- clades, which makes them African, and they cluster closer to other Africans BEFORE they are to any Irish, Patagonian, or any of that other foolish nonsense, unless you can provide a source, credible of course, that says otherwise.
"The remaining 37 E-M35* Y chromosomes were found mainly in Africa, with a high frequency in the Ethiopians and the Khoisan...The distribution of E-P2* appears limited to eastern African peoples. The E-M35* lineage shows its highest frequency (19.2%) in the Ethiopian Oromo but with a wider distribution range than E-P2*. Indeed, it is also found at high frequency (16.7%) in the Khoisan of South Africa (Underhill et al. 2000; Cruciani et al. 2002)(suggesting, once again, their ancient relationship with Ethiopians) and observed in southern Europe (present study)."— Semino et al. 2004
You thus, soundly defeated, again, before you even had the chance to draw your sword.
Not fully black, but guess what? I embrace my heritage because it's beautiful. I'm seen as a light skin black girl everywhere. I don't care at all. We are all unique in every way. We're different. We have saasyiness. Lol. We don't let people run over us so easy.
Bw are strong and sooo sophisticated if they just let it show. We could be way more than what these idiots on here say. We have fight in us. Prove the rasict wrong, be successful and love life to the fullest :)
Bm are tender yet hard shells. Their just as special. I've been through sooo much in my life and you know who kept the fight in me? My brother's. Their my everything. Their the reason I'm still here and breathing. I love them to death. Honestly.
Bm keep the fight in bw. I respect ir's and so should you, you should still love the women who stuck by your side for longest years. Same with bw.
Black is unique, never hate your skin, only your
state of mind.
Message from sweetie.
I'd have to agree with the O.P...I love it...and have no problem with it...with our history...with our uniqueness...with our beauty...with the things that we have given the world around us!
AND YES AA ARE A SPECIAL PEOPLE...LET NO ONE TELL YOU OTHERWISE...DON'T SIT AND LISTEN ANYONE THAT EVER SAYS OTHERWISE...ASK THEM IF THEY'RE HIGH OR NEED SOME HELP WITH THEIR MENTAL ISSUES IF THEY EVEN SUGGEST OTHERWISE!
TAKE A MOMENT AND THINK OF THE MANY THINGS THAT AA HAVE DONE SINCE WE HIT THE SHORES OF AMERICA...THINK OF ALL OF THE ART,MUSIC,FASHION,WRITINGS,ACT ING AND DANCE...THE STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM AND THE MARCH TO EQUAL RIGHTS...THE WAY THAT WE HAVE SURVIVED BY DOING WHATEVER HE HAVE HAD TO DO...WE TAKE NOTING AND MAKE IT WORK!
JUST LIKE OUR ANCESTORS AND ALL OTHER BLACK PEOPLE THE WORLD OVER...WE'VE TOUCHED THE WORLD!
And?? The Bushman cranial structure is different from Sub-Saharan Africans but they still have 'tropical features'. Same with Papuan & Melanesians. Their cranial is similar to Europeans due too their long skulls & large brow ridges. Caucasoids have the 2nd largest brow ridge after Austrics. Caucasoids & Austric PPL are both the hairiest as well. You think modern Europeans only have all those traits. Do modern Europeans only have 'blond hair'?? No they don't.
An excellently preserved skeleton of a male aged 20-25 was discovered by A.N. Rogachev in 1954 in a shallow oval grave at the Upper Paleolithic site of Markina Gora (Kostenki XIV) on the Don, Voronezh Region. The estimated age of the burial is 32 thousand years.
Judging by a strongly flexed position of the skeleton and by traces of red paint on the bones, the body had been tightly wrapped or tied up and strewn with ocher. No burial goods were present, but the associated cultural layer contained Early Upper Paleolithic (Aurignacian) tools – blades, scrapers, burins, etc.– as well as animal bones (mainly those of wild horses).
The Markina Gora skeleton was examined by G.F. Debetz, who estimated the individual’s age at 20-25. The man was rather low-statured (about 160 cm). The morphology of his skeleton is generally quite modern. Certain cranial features, including very narrow braincase, low and narrow face, marked prognathism (anterior protrusion of the midface), and very wide nose, are typical of tropical populations. The trait combination links the cranium with those of Papuans and Melanesians.
Certain other Upper Paleolithic crania from Europe, too, display “tropical” features. Bodily proportions of Early Upper Paher or not this “artistic liberty” of the scientist and sculptor was warranted.
I did not expect Obama to be a revolutionary. But I would could have appreciated his being (in the words of Franklin D. Roosevelt" a "fighting liberal."
I wish that the President was of stronger will. he did not even fight for the public option as he should have. He threw it under he bus. He was even going to through health care care under the bus for the trigger option until the liberals revolted.
It's interesting that you describe Obama as "center/right " in French political terms. In America, Obama is only regarded as right wing or even centrist by people who are REALLY leftwing: socialists, anarchists & Black "left nationalists" (to use one of Manning Marable's terms). Your French Revolution of 1789 enable a left "proletarian " moment which never happened in our 1778 Revolution. Occasionally, a socialist can win a local election in an extraordinarily liberal local community. bu those of us who are left of liberal, who perceive the necessity of ending both racism and capitalist or class oppression, are pretty much excluded from the political process. Even in the Black community, which is overwhelmingly liberal and which actually esteems some of its historic revolutiionaries, you tend to become politically isolated if you try to go beyond movement or activist politics into the electoral arena. Former Black leftists who enter the political system either move to the right of their previous black radical progressivism, or become lone voices (if elected) crying in the wilderness. And to connect his with the issue of secularism, most secular Black folk--surtout atheists, agnostics and the like--seem to be further left of center than most in the Black community. Angela Davis, some leaders of the 1960s Black Panther Party are examples. They may even be popular as activists leaders and intellectuals, but they have no chance in the established political system. You don't seem to have many right wing Black atheists,agnostics , skeptics (though such exist). Not many Ayn Rand types. Indeed, one Black female atheists notes that while white atheists are aroused by culture wars relating to evolution and church/separation, Black secularism "emerges from a SOCIAL JUSTICE lens." The impact of racism and capitalist exploitation on the religiously devout Black poor has for centuries been a central theme in the thought and writings of secular black thinkers and activists--includi ng yours truly. But there is less room for left thought in America's poltical system. Socialists (even humanist socialists like I) and atheists cannot get elected. Obama used to hang out with people who read Frantz Fanon, with Marxist professors, feminists, and black and latin student activists. But something changed as he entered politics. In America, it usually does.
Perhaps Bob Moses' ALGEBRA PROJECT could be expanded also. Bob Moses was head of SNCC during the Mississippi Freedom Summer of 1964. SNCC organized "freedom schools" in the deep South. The Black Panther Party organized classes as well as food programs in urban areas. Any new Movement must have a strong cultural component as a central part of its agenda.
Do I believe that everyone in an IR hate their own black people or is some complete sellout? No. Do I think some of them are? Oh yes. Ray Charles can see that.
It is what it is.
And I don't disagree with that because I know some people who do. Smh its really sad and pathetic. What grinds my gears (peter laugh) is that.some people judge all of us the same. And that's just being plain ignorant. But I'm glad you are smarter than that.
Eastern Africa is were the OOA migration begin. The migrants took a southern route hence the skull in South Africa. So obviously the OOA migrants originally came from the North.
The reason he mentioned Eastern Africa is because that is the route of early migrations.
TODAY One day after the first anniversary of the national and international explosion of the Occupy Movement, we must ask again: IS NONVIOLENT REVOLUTION POSSIBLE? Occupy Wall Street and the Arab Spring, however they end up, seems to indicate that a nonviolent revolutionary movement for a freer and more just social order is POSSIBLE. Let's go for it!
La probleme du racisme Francais existe, et il est serieux. Mais le pays le plus raciste? Je doute. Mais Kemi Seba est un Afro-Americain. Beaucoup des Americains noirs experience moins du racisme en France que a l'Amerique. C'etait mes experience en France aussi. C'etait l'experience de mon oncle Oscar qui a battit a Normandie. C'etait l'experience de Richard Wright et beaucoup des etudiants, intellectuels et soldats Noir Americain en France. Ce n'est pas d'experience des Africaines du Nord.
Ok good post and I agree completely. Hollywood has been using these same tricks for decades. Beauty is also very diverse like you said but people often times only consider certain types which is usually what the media is promoting.
Throughout human history, our oppressors dominated people of color and raped them (and used false beauty standards including other strategies as means to glamorize some IR relations & dominate societies sociologically). Our oppressors regularly via the usage of Hollywood (when they present shows presenting the most gross stereotypes about BM and BW. This cause a minority of black people to view black folks collectively in a negative light thrusting them into IRs. Also, it's a fact that a certain percentage of IRs are a product of low self esteem, self hatred, and other illegitimate justifications), movies, ads, media, education, etc. promote the false image of a lighter, Eurocentric phenotype as being better when the truth is that beauty is diverse not monolithic.
Many books have talked about this issue.
I agree and you certainly express what many people feel. Keep staying Consience Sister.
Blessings to you.
Don't you know that some of those playmates are escorts. I have more respect for Sister Serena Williams than some playmates servicing Hugh Hefner. We aren't talking about reality TV shows here, since Serena isn't apart of that movement at all.
Definitely! But I don't wanna be stuck with a "black African phenotype" with a "Basketball Wives", "Love & Hiphop", "Real Housewives", or a "NeNe Leakes" type of mentality!
More important than she be a "black African phenotype" is that she not be CORRUPTED by this 21st century Sodom and Gomorrah, not PROVOKE HER BLACK MAN to ANGER as did Rhianna and Evelyn Lozada, that she knows how to BUILD a family rather than DESTROY ONE, that she UNDERSTANDS the DUTIES OF WOMEN and has a BRAIN!!!
Also, you do realize that Allyson Felix, Carmelita Jeter, Jennifer Hudson, and other sisters are beautiful with a black African phenotype. You kind of omit that, because you prejudge the black female collective by what you see on TV and the media. See, mainstream television has been used as a known propaganda tool that intentionally promotes negative, false stereotypes about our people in order for us to be divided and not united with our people (in creating solutions for our people). That's the point. See, Basketball Wives and all of these other shows should never make us as black men to put sisters into a single box. These shows remind us that we should be above those distractions and fight for true liberty as men. This gender war has been set up by the elites and their house Negro agents in order to promote division.
Now, it's a new generation and instead of having some silly gender war, we should advocate a war on illiteracy. We should promote a war on historical lies and a war on discrimination and any form of oppression against the human race. We should be spiritually inclined and moral, but morality is not about the hatred of the feminine principle. It's about the respect for it. No one gender is perfect. Both genders made mistakes and errors. Therefore, both genders should promote common ground in order for moral regeneration to transpire. Also, tons of females have brains or intellectual curiousity. Rihanna and the rest of them haven't caused the Drug War. They haven't invented the war on terror or caused slums and poverty in our world. Their sins never exceed the larger sins of a corrupt, corporate power structure. As for me, I will never be ashamed of loving black women in their unique skin colors and physical dispositions. I love the black African phenotype. That's just me.
Hope2 days ago
Since I have been seeing a lot of posts about BM talking about IRBW and how it's such a foul thing to do I want to know what you guys think about IRBM. Do you feel the same way you feel about the women dating out of their race? How would you respond If he says he thinks non-BW are better than BW? I'm pretty curious to see what you guys think about this.
So-called AA's such as Unique (if he is even black that is) make the mistake of thinking that because the white man ended slavery or gave them rights it was due to black protests and marches!
That's what I have been trying to tell these morons who call themselves "AA's": we need to build a political culture in this country that holds the Obamas of the world accountable to the people.
No it wasn't, if the majority of whites still wanted slavery or segregation - we would of had to literally take up arms and kill whites for our freedom, like they did in Haiti!
Everything that AA's have in America has been ALLOWED to them by the white-man, he and he alone has the power to decide what AA's have! It seems that (so-called) AA's such as unique are actually celebrating being powerless!!!
I think as a whole most Africans suffer from battered wife syndrome. They take abuse, rape, and degredation and still love the one that abuses them the most. We are not the enemy, we are victims of our enemy. Our self hatred is not self inflicted, therefore, it must be cut off at its source, white supremacy. When you tell a person from the time that they are born that they are worthless and have no history and are ugly, how do you blame that child for growing up with negative self image and projecting that image on others who look just like them? However, I do agree that many of us who are in a position to act as the shock troops against our interests should be looked at as instruments of the enemy and treated accordingly.
I feel the same way as a black man.
I don't obsess over IRs, because it's not my thing, but more brothers praticipate in it than the sisters in America. Our culture is changing and IRs are more accepted by the wider public than a generation ago even. Some brothers do it, because they feel socially awkward and some brothers have low self esteem. Some brothers do it, because they falsely blame all sisters for the unjust treatment that they have suffered in the past. Some rich brothers do it, because of peer pressure and a sense of social entitlement. I see brothers where I am from with low self esteem going out with a person of another race. I see brothers with high self esteem dating outside of their race as well. Not all IRs are monolithic, so I don't stereotype all of them into one single box.
I haven't encountered a brother in an IR saying to my face that a non-BW is better than a BW. I only debate brothers like that on the Net. Brothers like that have low self-esteem or self hatred issues period. If you hate the women of your people, you hate yourself. It's as simple as that. I think of that view as false and inaccurate since a white woman is not superior in any way to a black woman. A black woman has style, diversity, creativity, and beauty that can't be beat in my view. I can't hate my grandmother, my mother, my aunts, my female cousins, etc. since they are black human beings. I love my black people, so I believe that a black woman deserves dignity and respect. Black women are Queens.
Ultimately, one common thread in all of those interracial relationships is that the black person doesn't romantically love the opposite gender of their own black people completely. People may call it racist or whatever, but it's the truth.
In the final anaylsis, Black Love, Black Unity, and Black Power are powerful, legitimate forces that can fight back against the lie of white supremacy.
Like Morpheus said in the Matrix, I am only offering the truth, nothing more.
It is what it is.
I am one brother and many brothers will agree or disagree with me.
silly...we're no different than anyone else...if you take away the "American culture" and I use that term very loosely in regards to what's in America...then where do you suppose white Americans would run?...back to Europe right?
We are not the descendants of Americans and Native Americans and I am not ashamed of our past just the present. Every other race has an identity, they know where to run "back" to, we as a people do not. Take away the American culture and who are we? Where can we return to?
Okay...so whe'd run back to Africa...there are many AA with homes there right now!
Some people aren't attracted to an athletic woman and that's their right. Everyone has their own preferences. I view Serena Williams as a beautiful black woman. I am attracted to a vareity of black sisters. People must feel hurt or something, because it's really silly for some folks to target Serena when our real enemy is not sisters, but oppression & a corrupt white supremacist system. We are better than this distraction. We need to fight against HIV/AIDS, poverty, crime (especially black on black violence), stereotypes, health care complications, and all ills in our communities. We need to fight for radical improvements among us as brothers since we made mistakes too.
At the end of the day, we have to organize in our own people in order for us to create solutions. I think Desmond is a hypocrite since she bashed Serena, but he has an Asian girlfriend. Serena Williams is a beautiful black woman irrespectful of who she dates (which is none of our business to be frank).
You can't say I love Black Power by day and lay up exclusively with non-black women (or praise some Playboy playmates over a sister that has a business, Olympic Gold medals, works in charities to help our her own people, and love brothers too). It isn't happening.
11 hours ago
Hi Timothy.This is an interesting. I understand what both sides are coming from. It's an old debate obviously. The solution is pretty much for males and females to be themselves unashamedely. In the final analysis, we can't fake the funk. We have to express our authentic raison d'etre. Just because a human being lived in a certain environment, doesn't mean that person will remain in the same fashion or the same social disposition. People can change. Historically, men with certain social weaknesses have transformed their weakness into strengths.
Both males and females ought to be treated with dignity and respect. There is nothing wrong with man being aggressive (if it's harnessed in the right direction). On the other hand, Just because a man can be sensitive or courteous at times, doesn't mean that a man is acting less than a real man (or that man is weak). A man should just be himself since masculinity can be expressed in diverse forms. True masculinity isn't about a man acting as some nihilistic brute. Yet, the universal principle of masculinity deals with a man acting in society with strength, honor, and a promotion of justice for all peoples. A more aggressive man (whose honorable in his conduct) and a more sensitive man should be equally respected. These men aren't weak or punkish or brutish. It just shows the diversity of mankind. Diversity is the spice of life. So, there is nothing wrong with being a more rough man or a more nicer man. What matters is how you treat people and your core convictions not on your physical appareance, or your color, or your legitimate personality.
Now, attraction is different. We all have preferences. That is fine. This is a normal function of our emotions. We have the right to be attracted to who we want. I think we should be realistic and not dream of some fantasy partner that doesn't exist in the first place. Regardless if we are attracted to someone or not, we ought to give the same treatment to that person. Now, if someone is acting foul or disrespectful to us, we have the right to check that person.
Useful information in your post. I especially love the part where you state we should all simply be our authentic self. Not everyone is made for everyone. Personally, I despise beta males. I consider them weak and untrustworthy. I avoid beta males. I don't even like them in my social circle because imo they are slimy. They will pretend to be anything (even a homosexual) just to get some from a woman they are interested in. They will suck d just to get some p_____. I don't like them at all. I don't view them as real males. I don't even find them to be human tbo.
However, I know some women like these "part" males..I think because they are so easily led. Imo weak women are especially drawn to these males because they pose no threat or challenge to them and are often great toys.
I think though you are doing what most do which is confuse masculinity and feminity with alpha and beta. They are not the same at all. And alpha male has a varied form of masculinity. Alpha is something you are born with, wherease masculinity is shaped through environment and experiences. Alpha women are born alpha but their femininity is shaped through their environment and experiences.
I think that is a distinction many don't get.
But otherwise, I agree.
Great post. Couldn't agree more.
Thanks for your words. I am new to this alpha vs. beta concept and that is why I am confused on this type of subject. I heard of alpha and beta males before, I haven't studied this issue in a comprehensive fashion before until recently. You are right that a man should never be extremely weak and be punked by a woman or a man. Indeed, some of these manipulated men are utilized as boy toys (we know that these types of men are glamorized on reality TV shows like the husbands of Keke and Rasheeda. Those men make some shy men seem like Chaka Zulu. LOL. My brother is more angry about those men than I am, because they act like the "new man" when a male should be a man in a relationship). A man should be a man period.
Thanks Vamp! ;)
And, your love for Black men resonates with other Black men, regardless as to what their personal tastes of women are, whether it be Black or non-Black women. Black woman like you, Black men just respond to.
At the end of the day, MEN IN GENERAL appreciate the women who appreciate them...its not hard.
I know right? Lol!
So, let me get this straight...
...what you're saying is, you came to an INDEFINATE conclusion about Black men while in HIGH SCHOOL & your first 2 years of COLLEGE that your own men weren't for you?
I keep telling you all this, the new generation are nothing but followers.
No you have an excellent point!I was inspired to write this thread because of many people constantly saying the word, "preference, preference, preference (it's all in the preference). It is like an echo whenever I go.
Anyway values usually underlie preferences, meaning the values you sustain direct your path.
Example: one could have been taught that all people with brown eyes are evil and you should never converse with them, associate, or marry them, so as you get older you tend to hold those values and they direct where your preference lie.
I am pointing this out because "a preference" might not be as it is made out to be;there are reasons why people have a preference, could be negative or positive.
P.S what I think
And some of us already realize this point...you're dead on the money!
Exactly...ones perception of a person,place or thing...determines their behavior!
*Thus the reason that there are now black suburban children who go out of their way to avoid non-suburban children..why...because these little suburban negros...have grown up around whites...who often assert negative,racist ideas about blacks!
This is for instance the reason that there is a little black boy in my second oldest child's Math class...who always disagrees with any thing that other black children say....any answer that they offer...but goes right along with anything that a white child says!
No matter how off point or inaccurate the answer is...to the point of other students...both black and white asking themselves "why is he acting like such an ass"...under their breath...he tried with my son only to be corrected by him!
This same child has stated that black children don't like him...yet all of the other children...black,white and other get along in various configurations to varying degrees!
This comment also reminds me of certain young ladies...from other countries or cultures...that I dated in the past...who started out informing me that "I'm not into AAM...I only date the men of my culture...or "AAM don't know how to treat women"...mind you both of the young ladies that said this to me...fell in love with me and are both now married to AAM...and ironically these same women shared stories of having their hearts broken or being disappointed with a man from their own country/culture!I was inspired to write this thread because of many people constantly saying the word, "preference, preference, preference (it's all in the preference). It is like an echo whenever I go.
Anyway values usually underlie preferences, meaning the values you sustain direct your path.
Example: one could have been taught that all people with brown eyes are evil and you should never converse with them, associate, or marry them, so as you get older you tend to hold those values and they direct where your preference lie.
I am pointing this out because "a preference" might not be as it is made out to be;there are reasons why people have a preference, could be negative or positive.
P.S what I think
These women had per-concieved ideas/perception of American black men...but found that they were merely generalizations...that did not apply to all AAM.
Very insightful and edifying content, but if I may, I would like to add an addendum to what you have already imparted. Expounding further upon the values we take from our cultural templates to that which we acquire along our individual journeys and trajectories. As an empiricist, one thing I have learned is that individual preferences are also strongly correlated to where we are at any given time on our respective maturation continuum.
As a young immature knucklehead, I lacked any meaningful capacity to appreciate any value in a female beyond her aesthetic beauty, and so my preferences were mostly based on looks in those early years. As I lived and accrued life experiences and begin to discover these other redeeming qualities in women, my preferences were then reshaped by a hybrid of the tangible and intangible. Shifting or evolving values if you will, moving me beyond my earlier conditioning.
Most men, not all, don't perform self reflection or introspection until we suffer some kind of setback or trauma in our lives and only then do we examine our inner being, and with out this knowledge of self, it is impossible to know what we desire, need or what works best for us in a woman. Of course, some of us, never do, but most, at some point, experience a seismic shift in those things that they esteem and look for in a woman. So, in a word, our preferences can also be a product of an evolutionary process.
How do you know the reason behind why a man approaches a woman of any hue? Men approach women because they find them attractive, be they light, caramel, brown, cocoa, or dark. If they don't find them attractive...they don't approach. I see men evey day, flirting with women who are not light in complexion, so It sounds like you are convinced that the only value men see and appreciate in you is the hue of your skin tone....which says more about you than it does about them!I was not bashing but many dark skinned men only approach light women because they're light....
I know if I was darker they wouldn't flirt with me on a daily basis.
I think this issue is wild. The truth is that if someone wants to sincerely love a person, then that person should be confortable in their own skin. Our people have a wide spectrum of skin complexions, but we are still black Africans. I think we should continue to fight back against colorism and that slavery mentality (which includes the sick lie that lighter skinned people are asthetically more beautiful than blacks of darker skin complexions). Frankly, black people are beautiful in our diverse physical appearances. Black is beautiful.
People have the right to have legitimate preferences, but the problem is that some folks view certain black people as being inferior (or not worthy of love or respect) based on stereotypes or false preconcieved notions. That's the problem. I like black women with a darker skin complexion naturally, but I don't view lighter skinned blacks as inferior and I don't view them with scorn. I view all black people as equals since we are fighting for that same goal of equality and justice. Also, we are black people.
I know reality honey, I don't rely on the system to raise the children of my family and community. I take it upon myself, as a black woman, to support, encourage, and motivate the black men of my bloodline and surrounding family.
The black men in my family don't sag or carry guns for recretional purposes. I would never date or marry a man that was not of the same mindset.
So yeah, you keep tripping on stereotypes about your own people. But question for you, do you just sit back and complain, sit back and insult, sit back and stereotype or do you put action to your words? Until then, keep moving.
The Williams sisters already know what is going on. That documentary is going to make their black father look bad and then it is going to dig up some white coach to make him the hero in their success. Typical Hollywood. I just hope the mother gets credit too. According to Serena, the mother Oracena was just as hardcore in making them practice as the father. There is a beautiful family story that can come from the Williams' sisters. Just don't trust those white folk to do it. Real talk.
Yes and amen.
Every time I saw one of those news stories on single black women I was like WTF?!? When did white people in power ever give a rats tail about healthy black families? Is that why so many black men are locked up for non-violent offenses?
The straw for me was a story on the network Russia Today on single black women in America. I'm thinking: "Now the RUSSIANS are tripping over black marriage?!?"
See, that's why when Chinese and Indian couples get around whites, they speak in their own languages, so the white can't instigate and use that divide tactic.
Divide and conquer. The oldest and most effective trick in the book.
Thank you for the lecture white man. Now would you please go to the Vatican and tell them to leave those young boys' booties alone? No one is holding you back except yourselves and your dysfunction.
And wtf are you talking about? Up until YOUR comment, no one said anything negative about the white family who took Gabby in. You just pulled that out of your a___. Yuck. Is Sarah Palin commenting on RWS?
Reading is fundamental. Stick to the script. Read it like I wrote. The comment was about how the white media turned on Gabby Douglas. Even white columnists wrote about how quickly the sharks circled on Gabby after she won. That chick was queen for barely 24 hours.
The key point is...you don't know any black people period. I personally know black families who HAVE taken in virtual strangers who had nowhere else to go. I have friends who have taken in entire families. If your imaginary circle of blacks is slacking, that reflects on you. Keep pushing that myth that white people are the only "good" influence in blacks' lives.
After looking at various points of view on this issue, I am on the Sisters Realitee’s and Redefined’s side. I don’t use a smokescreen at all. I always expose many brainwashed AAs acting nihilistic, which is based on a corrupted, materialistic, monopoly capitalistic culture. I do expose many errors among some black people, but I don’t blame black people collectively for the War on Drugs, the war on terror, or all of the neo-colonialism in the world. American culture now is very much influenced by Europe. Now, no one said that European culture was monolithic for even Europeans were oppressed by monarchs, kings, and emperors. All people suffered oppression, but black people suffered psychologically, emotionally, and sociologically worse than any other ethnic group in human history.
The Maafa alone (with rape, division of families, tearing up of human body parts, murder, kidnapping over thousands of miles, beatings, and the whole nine yeards) is the worst experience on a group of people in human history. There is no comparison. The biggest threat in the world today is white supremacy. The origin of our problems heavily exists from white supremacy, because it is the 400+ centuries old system that colonized, harmed, brutalized, raped, use false beauty standards, and other methods that are worse than other forms of imperialism. That system affected people of color the world over not just in Africa. There are socioeconomic troubles that affect many ethnicities, but white supremacists uses color (not just class) to as a method to prevent some people of color to have real opportunities in the world. Hollywood, the media, movies, and other forms of current power structure advocate the falsehood of the superiority of whiteness at the expense of human dignity all of the time.
Also, African Americans always used constructive criticism about some of their people and not omit problems in our communities. Some non-blacks should not lecture blacks on criticism when we blacks have utilized criticism in our communities for eons. The difference is that I don’t omit white supremacy (since certain forms of oppression exists beyond class disparities). White supremacy is still to be blamed despite the existence of poor whites, because the leaders of oppression in the world aren’t white people collectively, but the leaders of oppression are white supremacists (as in globalists, and internationalists) in that race. No one omits suffering of poor whites, but many poor whites suffer less stereotyping, discrimination, oppression in the legal system, etc. in many instances than poor blacks. See, if oppression must end, then you have to deal with racial issues not just gender, class, and sexual issues. Also, the stereotyping of Americans as collectively childish and loud is just as ignorant as characterizing all Europeans and Africans in negative terminologies.
I believe in both public and private efforts. You need the collective and individuals efforts in creating solutions. Dr. King woke up greatly from 1967. He publicly criticized mainstream capitalism and the immoral Vietnam War. He woke up so much that I found out recently that Dr. King in 1968 wanted (get this) TEMPORARY SEGREGRATION until oppression was decreased in America. This isn't known very much by the public and I got his quotes. He also praised Black Power and revolutionary movements the world over. So, Dr. King was waking up massively before he was unfortunately assassinated. I wish he was alive to wake up further, but his legacy is still with us.
You stereotypes are really old.So is that it? No comments? No responses?
I wanted this to be a discussion, but I guess AA's don't like discussing serious issues; only asinine ones.
You are right on thing though. That thing is that some individuals who are African Americans need to be more morally upright. Some black people act like degenerates and as black people, we ought to promote more reasonable conduct among some of our people. You are definitely wrong to assume that African American don't like serious discussions since many African Americans know about philosophy, engineering, science, and other subjects (they discussed about these topics before you were born). African Americans have a strong sense of intellectual curisiousity and were active in liberation movements from Nat Turner, Dr. King, Malcolm X, etc.
Now, the negative, horrendous acts that you show are representative of true African American culture. African American culture deals with rebellion against slavery, it deals with activism, it deals with the love of family, and it deals with having courage admist struggle. That's our culture. These acts that you show are all about a perversion of true black culture. It's the culture of white supremacy since some unfortunate black people want to emulate the savagery of white oppressors. White supremacy used rape, vile slurs, murder, genocide, materialism, capitalistic exploitation, and other perverse actions to harm people of color throughout the world. They are of their Father and we know who their father is. So, the materialism, disrespect toward males & females, the recreational usage of drugs, the anti-intellectualism, and other evil acts have nothing to do with true African American culture (since many blacks in America act upright). It has to do with a materialistic (white supremacist) Westernized cultural ethos that is plaguing the world. Other people in different ethnic groups follow that sick way of life not just some blacks.
The legitimate contributions of African Americans ought to be respected then and now. I understand that you express some snese of disatification with our situation. I am unconfortable since we should do better, but I won't lose hope or become pessemistic. The reason is that there are still millions of African Americans today that are in organizations helping their own people. There are still AAs fighting against poverty. There are still black Americans who are using programs to combat black on black violence. There are still African Americans working day in and day out promoting true black history. Regardless if we live in Kenya, London, or New York City, we are still African people. That doesn't change. Therefore, we should do our part in helping our people and not get caught up in losing hope or embracing some apathic attitude. If we complain, we should do something about as well. Also, stereotyping African Americans into one box is wrong.
A hetero black woman, I find the Williams sisters most highly attractive, and dare I say, beautiful. They've really come into their own over the years. It's refreshing to see confident, poised, uber-talented black women who don't fit the traditional mold of what constitutes "beauty" for black (American) women but who are comfortable in and in fact celebrate who they are, physically, culturally and holistically (and we know Daddy Williams had a great deal to do with that.).
So, yeah, a boycott might've been in order.
Dubois, Dubois! I love the brother. He poses to history as the perfect example of what is wrong with black middle class leadership and ideas! If anybody thinks the black middle class has leapt forward, think again. DuBois, after 1945, challenged himself, committed class suicide and became a revolutionary Pan Africanist. Show me where Michael Eric Dyson, Bill Cosby, Shelby Steele, Donna Brazile and any others have done that. They are all products of the old DuBois. Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, Farrakhan and others. I would like to see them become the new DuBois, but don't think that will happen. Until then, their ideas will continue to be as bizarre and reactionary as the Dutchman.
We as revolutionaries have the opportunity to use history to tell our story. DuBois the Dutchman, the guy who boasted about his education and Germanic roots, who wanted to be the leader of Americuz black masses. Yeah, the same guy who bumped heads with Booker T, snitched on Garvey and now, we learn, believed in eugenics. What a rotten bastard! Yet he contributed to Pan Africanism from the outset and was instrumental in helping make the shift to a revolutionary analysis which called for scientific socialism. That is DuBois the African. We have to use his example to move the masses in our direction by showing how the black middle class is an ideologically bankrupt class. They have all sorts of bizarre ideas, but ideas which facilitate capitalist exploitation of the black community. We can use DuBois to show how they can commit class suicide and join with the struggle of the international African world.
That is the DuBois we are after, altho I love the old one because his reaction is so transparent. It is the transparency of his disdain for the masses. His advocacy of the "Talented Tenth" is still the guiding theory of the black middle class, believe it or not! You don't see democratic centralism in organizations led by Mary Wright Edelman, Niger Innis, the black church, 100 Black Men, or any other group. Unlike DuBois, they lack transparency. They are the Talented Tenth which he regrettably left behind.
Eugenics were not born in 1933 & did not end in 1945 with Nazism. It's been in the very core of western philosophy for long time now, they come in different forms through time, just like an ideology.
Social darwinism, Malthusian theory (can't expect much sympathy & love for human beings from a man who bears the same name as a demon, Malthus: Earl of Hell), phrenology, racism & racial hygiene, population's fertility control are still efficiently active, hidden behind pseudo-sciences and programs supposedly made to serve humanity and help us improve while they are just other form of western genocidal domination on Mankind, with us the Strongest People, at the top of the extermination list and they have been successful so far...! That's why I say if we don't organize ways to fight back they will exterminate us.
A good book re: this: Medical Apartheid: The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington.
I think the question of this thread could take a different angle and perhaps try and answer the question of why some dysfunctional black men have decided to contribute to the already anti-black woman/anti-black man atmosphere in America instead of joining in with the majority of black men who in some form or another are resistant to hate rhetoric and mistreatment aimed at themselves, their wives/SOs and their dependents...
It is truly not hard to sift through the biased and racist media and see that the majority of black men who are married are in fact married to black women.A simple glance at the 2010 U.S. Census will confirm this.
Functional black men are not intimidated by black women who are educated--in fact they seem to prefer that as black women who hold advanced degrees are 3 times more likely to be married than her white female counterparts--secondly while it may be true that black women outpace black men in earning degrees, it is not true that we out earn black men. At 70,000 a year,black men (police officers, construction workers, firefighters) are still the breadwinners in the black community.
I see i will be forever, er, most of the time while i am on Topix posting the Toldson and Marks study.
Not sure what the whole..."They still like brown girls" means...or was supposed to!
Again...the whole idea that we bm don't like brown...hell chocoale bw is nothing more than an overstated generalization!
I have always like pretty chocolate girls....first and foremost...and I'm not light skin at all!
I was just in the barber shop last weekend and one of the topics of discussion was the the actress Tika Sumpter:
Why?...because one of the barbers there had just gone to see the film Sparkle (which was worth seeing I thought!)and he asked me if I had seen it and the whole shop caught on fire in a voiceforus conversation about.."it wasn't even about Jordan or the other chick...what's her name...dude..it was all about baby girl...she's a diiiiime"..."did you see her..I know you did...Because that's your taste anyway"..and I had to tell about how I got pinched by my wife...because yes indeed...I was seriosly lusting after that sexy thing...lord have mercy...she was working it!...and my hormones too...lol!
And it wasn't just me and that one barber...it was a general consensus...that she was the hottest of the three sisters!
*I always...think that women in general...black women included should never be biased against the men of their own race...never give other men the benefit of the doubt...like a get off of probation free card...but of course they should have standards and know exactly what they want...be reasonable...but never settle for less than what they want!
Excellent Post...nothing more needs to be stated!
The Sister Tika was working that Afro and looked very beautiful in Sparkle.
The Serena Williams issue is a distraction. The Sister Serena never dogged out black men or black people at all. Serena Williams is an athletic, beautiful sister. Our real issue is how can we be build up the economy, how can we stop the violence in our communities, how can we help brothers & sisters out who are struggling, and how can be fight against poverty plus all forms of oppression plaguing our people. We in the black community give Serena a pass, because Serena and Venus love black people and they are doing great work in helping out the black community. Google their accomplishments beyond the Olympics. I think some low self esteem insecure brothers (and racist bigots too) are jealous of her success. Some people condemn Serena, but they praticipate in an interracial relationship themselves. That's hypocrispy. This Serena bashing is about the slick bashing of BW and I disagree with that completely.
I think God put Serena on this Earth to prove to the white racist society that there is the great value of the beauty of black African phenotype. Seeing a woman like Serena refutes the false white beauty standard completely (which is why "others" try to use surgeries, tans, implants, etc. in trying to look like what black sisters have naturally). All non-blacks are intimitations of what we black people have naturally since we are the first. We are the original humans on this Earth. In the end, we will remain.
I won't marry or date IR (my preference is for the sisters. I love the original women), but Serena Williams' great tennis talent and her respect for the brothers (she dated Common and other brothers before) and sisters should be acknowledged.
In the final analysis, it's time to build.
On the issue of male superiority, how many you brothers would be where you are if it weren't for women like our wonderful mamas Nanny or Harriet Tubman (among many)? On the issue of female superiority, how many of we sisters would be where we are if it weren't for the men who helped to bring these wonderful mamas into the world?
Which mentality base, male superiority or female superiority, is more valid? Neither is more nor less; they are equal in their power to distract, divide, and destroy.
Where would any of us be if it were not for both male and female? Let us not continue to play into this "men are from mars, women are from venus" nonsense. Let the others continue to love to war over such nonsense.
As for us, let us strive to re-establish balance and harmony. Let us never forget that anything which seeks to separate us from one another (and we have to be aware of what are we are seeing as we are looking) could never be good for us. Let us never forget that we need each other.
There was once a time when, regardless of how it was expressed, the concept of balance was not some type of exotic extra but a way of life. So much is flip-flopped and devalued. Balance and respect for the necessity of this balance are foreign now and what was once foreign is common. So now in the place of the essentials are mere things and no matter how the belly is full, no amount of things will ever be enough to deal with the hunger felt.
I do think that things will continue to shift, however, until they are again where they need to be or at least much closer to that.