Monday, August 29, 2011

More Discussions and Debates in August of 2011


EkDesiLadki wrote:
I agree it's needed. Yet, I feel education equality is much more important.
When there is such a obvious SEGREGATION in education and higher priced neighborhood means better schools(excluding few exception), why do people NEVER fight against such prevailing injustice ?
There are so many well educated black philosophers like you, do you guys get together and think about taking any steps against these ?
Actually, it has been estimated that there are perhaps 120 Black philosophers out of a total of over 9,500! Some of my older contemporaries were once activists during the 1960s. Some black philosophers are alos engaged in various efforts. There is even an APA Committee on Blacks in Philosophy, But that is not an activist organization. Aside rrom scholarly work many Black philosophers are invoved in fighting racism in academia. Others may have practical engagement in actions to alleviate injustices faced by the larger Black Angela Y. Davis and Cornel West are especially known for activities outside academia.



Dubbadub wrote:
Just passing through here seeing as this thread is actually aimed at Europeans I thought I might answer.
America and it's inhabitants to me, are people living in a bubble, you all need to understand especially on this forum that the rest of the world isn't all caught up in all this race stuff. Most of the rest of the world is unconcerned so much about race, yeah it may be a small side issue in some parts of the world, but really not a big issue.
This is mainly due to the fact in my opinion, that the US does not have a long history of any whites or blacks actually living there past 400 years or so ago. In Africa, Europe, Asia, etc the inhabitants of these continents as in the blacks in Africa, whites in Europe, and Asians in Asia have claims to their continents going back thousands if not millions of years, which eliminates most of the race element.
EG, if I an Irishman goes to say, Africa I will respect the Africans, and if an African comes to Ireland he/she will usually respect the Irish, as they recognise that thousands of years of history is something to be reckoned with.
The US doesn't have this, apart from the native Americanss, and in some parts the Mexicans, but I think this is where the US falls short in comparison to the ancestoral homelands of the people who now inhabit the United States of America
i would not endorse your view that the "race stuff" is ignored outside the USA. It is not true : rampant racism for example against Blacks is present in South America for example. There are many analogies by the way with the US history.

However you have a valid point upon the specific history of race relationships in the USA : a Civil War and one century of Segregation. We could say it makes a big difference with the E.U. because we mostly had no Black slaves on our soil apart Spain during a limited period several centuries ago.
Europeans have benefitted from the slave trade and have been slavers but outside the continent. The relative stigma on Africans - to consider only the negative but there is also a positive look on Africans - in the E.U. comes from religious devalorisation first then the colonial system with the exaltation of a "white pride" and dreams of "white supremacy".

You have also another valid observation : any traveller is struck by the contrast of the focus on "today" or "tomorrow" in the USA and the lack of interest in history and the reduced remnants of this shorter life of the original 13 Colonies. Even Philadelphia which a big national landmark was preserved only ... under the presidency of Eisenhower.
There is a demolition/new construction in the USA when we Europeans tend to sacralize history and its marks (in architecture in particular).

a whiteboi


SimplyComplex_873 hours ago
she's right. i also believe black children would be much more productive if they learned separately from white children. too often at white schools i've witnessed black elementary school students be neglected by teachers, thus left behind, because they're individual learning styles didn't agree with the "one size fits all" teaching methods utilized. i've witnessed black middle school students dumb themselves down because their black friends didn't consider it "cool" to be smart and interested in learning. i've witnessed black high school students lack the confidence and/or desire to sign up for Honors or AP classes because very few of their black peers take such classes and/or they're intimidated by the potential workload.

on the positive side, i've witnessed black children succeed and value ambition at a much higher rate in all-black schools. and let's not even get into the topic of HBCUs...besides mentioning that they're where EVERY black college student needs to be... :)

i know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but our race as a whole needs to start placing more value in a college education. when you're young, you may think it doesn't matter much, but when you get old, you begin to see the the REAL and harsh financial effects of not having a degree. if y'all want blacks to escape the bondage of high unemployment rates and poverty, you need to start telling our young people to go to college! it will at least increase their chances of a better future...


Barros Serrano wrote:

It is a GLOBAL struggle!
If you can get a copy of the August 24 edition of the Washington Post, you will also note that films and books by and on King are being translated into Arabic and Farsi to facilitate the momentum of the Arab Spring.
Apparently there was even an American comic book called "Martin Luther King and the Montgomery Story" that was circulating in Cairo's Tahrir Squate. It was translated by some group called the "American Islamic Congress", apparently with the objective of teaching forms of nonviolent protest (eg demos, sit ins, boycotts) to young people in the Arab world. These Arab youth in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and other places are now adobting these techniquee.
There is mention of Dalits, oppressed people in India, now increasingly resorting to Kingian forms of struggle. of course, the affinity between King and Gandhi probably makes for specially powerful resonance over there.
The film "From Montgomery to Memphis" was shown by Polish dissidents of Solidarity, and workers marched with signs in Polish "We Shall Overcome!" Same thing happened in Tinnanmen Square.
Some time ago I started a thread on NONVIOLENT REVOLUTION, querying whether such is possible.
While not completely certain, I tried to suggest--to argue--that nonviolent revolution is possible. And it can mark a new chapter in the history of Revolution.
Perhaps, it is History that will prove me--and Dr. King--to be right.

Throughout the world: FREEDOMM RISING!!!!




Today is the the 48th anniversary of the famous 1963 March on Washington where Dr. Martin Luther King gave his famous "I Have a Dream" speech. I know that Dr. King visited Europe a number of times, and was an admirer of Scandinavian social democracy. Of course, he wss in Europe in 1964 to receive the Nobel Peace Prize--an award which he, unlike brother Obama, actually earned.

But it interests me to see how much he and the Movement of my people which he led inspired the fight for freedom in the very continent which colonized his ancestral homeland and deported his ancestors in chains to America.

On August 24, 2011 there appeared in the WASHINGTON POST, an article by Emily Wax talking about the influence of King and our movement on the Irish fighting British oppression, and eastern European peoples resisting Stalinist despotism--by NONVIOLENT MEANS.
It is noted that people were singing "We Shall Overcome" in Poland, Czechoslavakia and other places. There are streets named after King in italty, and I think Attai once posted photos of a statue to king in a French city.
Interesting that whites in Europe--opprssed by other European whites--are inspired in the struggle for freedom by a movrement and spokesman of a people once enslaved and colonized by the West.

King symbolzes the spirit of freedom rising against tyranny, and with a movement relying on MORAL FORCE rather than the sword.



Walls of Jericho wrote:

Genocide can mean anything, idiot.
You think it's only by murdering people? Well, it's not.

That basically means that you believe your people have a right to exist as well, something you apparently have a problem with.

I joined Topix, not Afam Topix.
1. Look at the name of this forum : African-American Forum ... moron.

2. No genocide doesn't mean "anything" only for illiterates.
Genocide has a strict definition like crime against humanity.
None of your examples qualify for the definition because Poles, Ukrainians and Russians have not been targeted for complete extermination though we can debate the case of the Poles whether there was a genocidal objective from the Nazis. Historians say no with what we have of documents. Hitler wanted to enslave Eastern european peoples not eradicate them.
The Communist regimes have sometimes targeted peoples for a sort of genocide but so far it has failed : Stalin tried that with the Baltic peoples and with the Tatars and the Germans of the Volga region ; the Chinese have been accused of rampant genocidal practices against Tibet.
In short we nearly have the white Jews during WW II ; i don't know where Armenians fall in these artificial "race" categories. Same genocidal practices have been used on American Indians by ... white colons.

3. i believe that "my people", French people and European people, have a right to exist but it has nothing to do with being "white" because non-white French people have the same right to live and prosper.

So the difficulty to understand what you mean because you have your own definitions of common words that are ideological and not factual.

a whiteboi


_A_0 minutes ago
We have to understand that black households don't teach that being smart is acting white, that image is beamed to our children on a daily basis by white media. Most Blacks aren't aware of it therefore don't know how to effectively combat it. White people are pushing their white supremacist poison 24/7 so it should stand to reason that at least that much might be needed to combat it. I really don't think it requires that much because with the right exposure to the RIGHT TEACHING, the fallacy of white supremacy will simply dissipate like darkness does when a light is turned on. The problem is, so many of US fail to acknowledge that White Supremacy even exists and to what extent. Many of those will be by shortly to take shots at me or others with a similar perspective.

If your child attends an integrated school, then the curriculum should also be integrated. Black parents should fight hard for that. I can show you videos where white parents are fighting hard in districts where they are trying to teach mathematics a different way. These parents go to the board meetings and voice their displeasure so loudly and continuously, that they bring about change. That's how we need to be with these schools and their White Supremacy reinforcing, eurocentric curriculum. If you can't find enough parents to join you, then you will simply have to take it upon yourself to ensure your child is receiving a TRUE AND PROPER education. The 3 r's aren't enough. Never has been!


bvince1 hour agoin reply to _A_
Great article and _A_.....outstanding points. "The 3 r's aren't enough. Never has been!" This point is debatable though when it comes to countries like India or China that produce most the engineers in the world. I do think one of the reasons is lack of integration. So you may be right in your opinion.

The late great brother Malcolm X believed that education is the key to freedom and Dr. King believed this also but Ms. Hunter makes excellent points, as do you, about the problem of integration. When it's all said and done our children's future is in our hands and no one else.

Once again great points brother.....great points.

bvince18 hours agoin reply to Iwillbfree
Bravo!!! Bravo!!! (standing and clapping)

Brother you are on a roll. That's all I've been saying. If you,being a black man,wants to criticize Mr. Obama ,for example, for not including a public option in the health care bill then go ahead but to run to white blogs, white media and talk bad(some cases even racial) about him.....I say no. They are validating what is being said about Mr. Obama. These blacks are saying things about Mr. Obama that white people WANT to say but won't so they get another black man to say it for them. Sounds just like slavery back in the day. Taint one slave then send him in to taint others.

When Bush was in office and went to war countless people around this country were fired because they dared speak against the Iraq War. Some people even had to move out of neighborhoods or lie that they supported him.

You are correct on all fronts sir. Respect to your comments.


Brother, you are right!!! That's why I haven't criticized him on this very public forum as much as I do privately. It just doesn't seem right. Those of us who are viciously maligning him are aiding his enemies. That's exactly what they want us to do. I refuse to take part in that. We need unity, Black people!

"You are correct on all fronts sir." So are you.


"These blacks are saying things about Mr. Obama that white people WANT to say but won't so they get another black man to say it for them. Sounds just like slavery back in the day. Taint one slave then send him in to taint others."

Good looking out! I see you're NOT A HATER! And you are also on point with your comment. This is EXACTLY, how the caucasoid enslaver TURNED US AGAINST EACH OTHER! They lied, deceived and USED the house negroid AGAINST the field negroid. They even turned the field negroids AGAINST each other by giving the snitching slave a BETTER JOB on the field, as the OVERSEER of the field negroids!

EXAMPLE: OVERSEER = FOREMAN, MANAGER OR SUPERVISOR! You know how negroid workers hate and are jealous of Black foremans, managers and supervisors!

As you can see, my brother, NOTHING HAS CHANGED!


I know Mr. Obama is what he is but no matter how much he leans toward white people there is still a group that is going to remind him "You're not one of us". And you're on point. I be damned if I join them because at the end of the day Mr. Obama and I will both will be called 'n*****'.

Nothing has changed.


Obama's initial instinct was correct. He said the police acted stupidly and that a man should not be arrested in front of his house after he had provided identification. He was vilified for that statement. That's why he reached out to the cop and held the so called beer summit. He tries really hard to please white people, not understanding that even though he's half white, there's nothing he can do to please them.

The interesting thing about that meeting was that the cop had indicated even before the meeting that he would not apologize to Gates. Gates should never have attended that meeting because he knew he wasn't going to get the respect he deserved. Having a brew and a chat with a white cop who had arrested him on the porch of his own house, was not the right thing to do on Gates' part. Reconciliation means nothing if the wronged party doesn't get justice.

Obama doesn't like to talk about race because he knows that white people will never face their demons.




A_21 minutes agoin reply to bvince
Thank you sir, but for the sake of clarity allow me to expand this point. Mastery of the 3r's is ESSENTIAL and vital, but if you look at these countries like China and India you will see a strong value system that supports the entire education system. The strong cultural ties that are developed along with the various subjects allows these students go anywhere and be successful. So what I mean to say is, brothers and sisters in need to have a strong knowledge of self which in turns produces a much better and more well rounded student in my opinion.

"Education is the process of instilling the values of a society, group, nation, race, or
ethnic group. It is the method by which people are taught the relationship to their
families, communities, nation, race, and the world. Further, education defines the
function of society and strives to help one become an active participant in the growth
and development of a given society, nation, race, and ethnic group." ~~Dr. Conrad Worill

I believe that students that receive this type of teaching in conjunction with the core subjects, truly understand why education is important. "Go to school and get an education" is almost like a talking point these days. It's really empty rhetoric if a child does not understand the true benefits education has for him or herself, their family and their community in the long term. I could be wrong but I believe strongly the reason for our high drop rate is a failure to see how education truly pays off in the long run.

Quite frankly, school costs too damn much if you're going just to go. That needs to be treated like an investment and like any other investment it's wise to pick the best asset class that will yield the best return. And if it's not right for you or even needed, then I advise people against it. Training can be obtained anywhere as long as people understand that there are no SHORT CUTS. But obviously if your choice is to go and work for someone else, you will have to make yourself marketable.


Zaius wrote:
Giving a radical activist a position as a newsman is the ultimate joke really. At least the white racists at MSNBC have a token black person now to deflect criticize of their lily white line up. That is all that really matters.

LOL. You are a funny man. MSNBC expresses it agenda. It's has a more liberal establishment agenda like FOX News is much more conservative. Bias and the mainstream media are just the way it is now. That is why I look at the alternative media. The alternative media and independent magazines, books, and other resources present more accurate forms of information anyway beyond the confines of the mainstream media. MSNBC does have other black reporters like Tamron Hall. I like the sister Tamron Hall since you know she's the sassy, strong type. I like a strong sister and she's more independent in her presentation of her journalism coverage (she doesn't overtly present a political bias in her reporting at all). Tamron also isn't some token since she paid her dues from an occupational standpoint. What really matters is to see a wide spectrum of news media to a formulate  a real picture about the occurrences in the world. If we look at solely FOX or solely at MSNBC, we will not have a better opportunity to uniquely witness the essence of the diversity of the human experience.

-By Timothy


Timothy wrote:

I was just like you years ago. I do like your heart and I think you're real. I believe in LOVE and all of that, but I have to have a link up with my people. I don't believe other people are inferior to my people, but I can't live in fantasy. I do agree with you though on many things. YOu have a real spirit and I do respect you.
I appreciate you sweetheart.....and I am not here to change anybody's beliefs....I am only sharing mine.(smile)
BeAuTiFuL SoUl


First of all I am considered to be among the hottest of the AA women and I am very feminine. I am old school and I do believe in a woman being the submissive one in a relationship. The key is to choose a man that you believe in and can respect. cannot say that ALL AA women are the way that you described them to be. Nobody can be fair or accurate by grouping people together. You have to judge the character of a person on a very individual basis....whether it be female or or white or what have you. I have white female friends who consider themselves hardcore. It all depends on an individual person. Do you like it when black men are described as being ALL THE SAME. Of course not.

Third... love is a heart to heart experience. Good and bad people come in all different colors shapes and sizes.

-Beautiful Soul (responding to Kasta's stereotypes)

Prof Marvel wrote:

Not interesting.
And now The Help proves the point.
If Spike's movies can't draw like The Help did, that's evidence he's doing something wrong -- not evidence that America -- who voted for Obama -- is racist.
Lee's work simply hasn't risen to the level of The Help. You may well argue that Lee's "Malcolm" did this in the black community and ie that's your point then Lee should be happy with the NAACP imagine award he got.
The Help will get that and an Oscar.
I will look at multiple points of view to develop my own opinion about the Help film. Economic popularity of a film doesn't necessary equate to a film's true merit. You are naive to assume that all of Spike's film displays a simplistic narrative about race. Many of Spike's films don't even deal with race and most of his films of course do. Yet, there is no immorality in that since a director has the right to show an exposure of whatever issue plausible in their own personal ideas or techniques.

We have a sudden disagreement on the issue of films and this is normal. All of the Spike's films don't accuse everybody in America of being racist. Some of his film exposes the truth that racism and bigotry are still prominent in certain parts of America and we have the right to fight against it via constructive means. Also, opposing white supremacy is a duty of every black person even in our time in 2011. That isn't about paranoia or hating every white person, but promoting our own self interests as black people. I have the right to promote my interests of my race like the Jews, the Arabs, the Chinese, the Armenians, the Croatians, the Irish, the Italians, and all of these other ethnicities. They do it and it's fine. Everytime, we blacks try to do it, it's seen by some as racist or extremist. I don't get that view at all since it's common sense to have a love affair with my people.

I don't know if the Help will win an Oscar. Regardless if the Help is in your opinion reasonable or not, we as black should exist beyond the HELP. We should be articulate, strong, progressive, and personally heroic to stand up for our people.

-By Timothy


Dr_Sojourn wrote:

Number one, Black women aren't as weak minded as white women. We do not allow others to define what is beautiful for us. As long as WE think we are "all that" what white men, white women and yes, even Black men think...doesn't mean shyt! We are just cool like that.
Number two however, there are more fat white women and others than there are Blacks because there are more of you. Whites tend to be in denial of this fact and only want to push up the white chicks suffering from anorexia with bones poking out and faces looking like skeletons. But hey, what ever floats your boat right?
Now, can we move on to some more "intelligent" topics here? Like is there a nuclear plant within 20 miles of where you live?
Cosign 100%! This has to be the best post on this entire thread.(lol) You have saida mouth full and have spoke nothing but the truth. There are a lot of fat white women walking around. White women are just jealous because black women can still love themselves and see themselves as hot-stuff without being a size O. Where as white women are not accepted by white men as being hot stuff unless they are skeletons....which is SiCk! White men are the main ones promoting that unrealistic and unhealthy way of usual.(lol) are right....most black women are not caring about what the WHITE media trys to promote as beautiful. Black women have our own style of beauty and we mentally kinda stay in our own world....and that makes us FREE from caring about OTHER PEOPLE's OPINIONS. I guess that's why everybody stays angry with us.(lol) Black women are truly the coolest and realest women on the planet and NOBODY can take that away from us.

-Beautiful Soul


Prof Marvel wrote:

The Help will certainly win Best Picture if for no other reason to spite Lee. But whether it will or not it SHOULD while none of Lee's work over the past 25 years should have.
For all Lee's Mau-Mauing about the black race, this first-time novelist white girl wrote a better "race movie" than he ever has -- she beat him at his own game...
The Help will be studied in film schools; none of Lee's work has or will. The genius of The Help is that it takes a topic neither Lee nor Perry -- or any black filmmaker!-- dare film and turned it into a box-office blockbuster.
The point is this: it's the story, not time, place, or situation. Were The Help a movie about soccer moms in Beverley Hills it still would be the box-office blockbuster it is because the author's genius would still shine through.
This is the lesson learned from this movie -- story is king!
Likewise, it exposes Perry's crap movies for the crap they are.
LOL. You must have a hatred of Spike and Tyler Perry. I don't hate these men and I don't know them like that. I don’t agree with all of the acts of Tyler Perry either.

Showing the cultural diversity of black people in films and outlining strong representative of black iconic figurers in a pro-black fashion has nothing to do with agitation or presenting some sense of racial bitterness. It has to do with effectively presenting a cinematic point about displaying our people's culture & issues. I don't know if the Help will win the Oscar or not. You don't know that in a crystal clear precision either.

Lee doesn't Mau Mau the black race, which is an old false charge that reactionaries, colorblind brainwashed sheep, and other likeminded people utilize. Why are you using Mau Mau when it was the British that terrorized innocent black Kenyans for years long before the Mau Mau existed. Promoting Black Unity and Black Power is a part of common cause and true common purpose to enrich black people. Spike Lee is just saying that if we want to experience that prize of social equality then we have to discuss certain issues even if they make "certain" people feel uncomfortable. This novelist didn't beat Spike at his own game. The novelist just inspired a movie. Nothing more or less. You act like the Help invented the wheel or something. When a film has popular support among a majority of people, I get cautious since not everything that glitters is gold. I'm leaning toward one position about "The Help," but I will look at different points of view to develop a pristine opinion about the movie. Sorry, but Crookyln, Malcolm X, and other likeminded films have more relevant in my life than the Help. The HELP may be taught in colleges, but some things can't be taught in a school.

Black people are more than "The HELP" in our diverse talents and focused intentions to create a determined, tolerable future among the black community. Our goal as blacks isn't to seek acceptance from white soccer mothers or corporate big wigs. Our goal is to seek unity and promote authentic validation within our own people whether they live in rural locations, urban places, or even in the suburbs. Story is vital in a film’s composition, yet a story can be accepted and rejected based on its content. Content and the way a story deals with controversial subject matters are just as important as the outline of a storyline.

-By Timothy


Zaius wrote:

I think you forgot about the 1964 civil rights legislation and are ignorant of the fact that many folk in the Tea Party are actually black. As a matter of fact, my congressional representative is not only a Tea Party candidate, he is black.
1964 Civil Rights legislation has not changed by magic centuries of anti-Black prejudice. Just like the abolition of slavery by Lincoln did not prevent one century of Jim Crow Segregation, lynching and kkk activities.

"many folk in the Tea Party are actually black" (Zaius).
That is a very surprising statement ... you mean Michelle Bachmann is a "high yellow" woman and Ms Palin grew up in Harlem ?
Or you simply rely on the fact that plural begins with 1+1 = 2.

There are probably a handful of Black people who are tea-partiers like you had during a couple of years a Black chairman of the Republican party who was marginalized and a puppet. You had a few of very hateful Blacks during the 2008 that launched nasty attacks on B. Obama too : i bet they can join the nastier Obama opponents in the Tea-party.
No big deal and it doesn't change the essence of the Tea-party policy which is reactionary and barely hiding its rabid anti-Black/anti-minorities prejudice.

a whiteboi


mr_rightnowww19 hours ago
no, he (or President Barack Obama) hasnt caused more racism, he has revealed more racism. it was always there.
adubb17 hours ago
Black ppl dont cause racism, and we never have. Racism is a disease that whites have cultivated and perfected, and there is no land on this green earth that is without it since they stepped foot on it. So Obama, nor any other Black country, organization or otherwise has ever practiced racism, because racism is a vacuum of power and being able to utilize it upon whatever ppl at will, economically, militarily, politically or otherwise. We can be prejudiced, but definately not racist. That is the white race's signature creed and we do not own that.
cocoa0915 hours agoin reply to Iwillbfree
You are so right about this. I know his presidency has been disappointing to Black people, but it's clear that he is being judged much more harshly than previous presidents. The racism being directed at him is so obvious. I'm not going to be complicit in aiding his enemies.


Prof Marvel wrote:
Look, Spike could have opened doors but he didn't. He actually shut doors. And you -- and Spike -- can go on and on about unity and all that stuff until the cows come home but if he doesn't leave the film industry a better place than when he found it, he hurt us, not helped us.
Spike was about Spike. He wanted to be a rock star instead of a negotiator and dealmaker. He just never grew up. He's still stuck in the 70s. He has less power than he did 30 years ago -- significantly less.
The author of The Help can command more investment dollars than Spike can and she's only been in the biz a year.
We need to be brutally frank about these things.
When one of our own drops the ball, we have to say it, and Spike dropped the ball.
He hurt us.
There is no conclusive evidence that Spike eliminated every single door among black filmmmakers. Spike isn't perfect, but he is not the reason why problems exist in the black community collectively.

Also, yes, I (and others) will talk about unity. The reason is that unity is one out of many solutions to solve problems in the black community. We need black unity like other ethnicities have been promoting for years. I believe in black unity and unity suddenly annoys you. It remains to be seen if Spike left the film industry better than he began since his film directing career isn't over yet. There are many black filmmakers now in 2011, yet you want to target Spike since you adamantly disagree with his political belief system. Spike Lee should be inspired to make better choices, but he isn't the Devil that you make him as. Also, should we negoitators or non-cooperators with evil. I'm not negitioting with a devilish establishment that views blacks as inferior. I'm fighting the establishment and promoting my own powerbase to benefit my own people. I do believe that Spike Lee should make better decisions, but he isn't the character you protray him as.

I don't think he's still stuck in the 1970's. Hurricane Katrina, the killing of Sean Bell, the killing of an innocent 6 year old girl in Detroit by savage cops, the lynching of a black man in Mississippi, the killing of a black man in the Bay Area, the immoral wars going on, and other crimes have been occuring in the 21st century (in our time not in the 70's). So, we look forward in the future with inspiration, but we don't forget the struggle. Black people should be made accountable for our behavior individually, but we shouldn't blame ourselves for the white supremacist system existing in our shores.

I will look at multiple points of view to make up my mind on the HELP as I haven't made up my mind on whether the HELP is a legitimate film or reinforces old stereotypes about people during the 1960's.

-By Timothy


Zaius has a habit of making things up, and I won't go through all the nonsense he posts here. Ask Zaius to PROVE that there are MANY Black people in the Tea Party, aside from his Black congressman.(Conservatives like to display their token accomodating Negro to legitimize their racist and reactionary policies, and to supposedly prove they're not racists)
But two things: Zaius stays that there "manyu" Blaks in the Tea Party Movement. That's FALSE. With the exception of the KKK I can hardly think of anything LESS popular in the national black community than the Tea Party.
As for his claim that conservatism has nothing to do with racism, you read ou on the "Southern strategy" of Richard Nixon and the Republicvans in the post 1960s era. Also, check out a book called CONSERVATISM AND RACISM: WHY IN AMERICA THEY ARE THE SAME.
Of course, he actually LIES about Attai to his ownf face, claiming that Attai is not really interested in America and has never visited the USA.
Strange that I met Attai in Baltimore, Md in July of last year!
He has an AA teacher who lives in Baltimore, and it seems that he has actually been to America several times-probably more often than I've been to France. That seems a strange, to mention costly habit on the part of a Frenchman who has no "concern" for the USA.
Again, Z simply makes up things and then peddles his fabriationsas facts.


Zaiu wrote:

 You sound like Nancy Pelosi. She has an excuse, as she is senile and obviously suffering from dementia.

"If you want to ban all government regulations, then enjoy child labor, poisons in our water, corrupt medical practices, massive discrimination, massive pollution in our atmosphere, and other evils."

Really now. Like you said, this is 2011.

Have you taken a look at China recently? They are guilty of all these things and we are borrowing 1.65 trillion dollars a year from them....and you forgot to mention massive human rights violations and outright slavery.

A vote for Obama is a vote to guarantee the black community will never recover.

"In 2007, best year of the Bush era, white households had a median net worth of $134,280, compared with $13,450 for black households.

By 2009, the median net worth for white households had fallen 24 percent to $97,860. For black households, it had plummeted 83 percent to $2,170, a near wipeout.

As Algernon Austin of EPI's Program on Race, Ethnicity and the Economy put it, "In 2009, for every dollar of wealth the average white household had, black households had two cents.""

I want all Americans to be prosperous. I campaigned and voted for Col. Allen West for this very reason.

The progressives want to keep you on the 21st century democrat plantation so you will keep them in power.
To Zaius:

I don’t sound like Nancy Pelosi.I sound like a regular man. You are a pro-Tea Party person, so your apparent views are typical of your agenda. Now, I don’t believe that Pelosi has dementia. My quote about government regulations, poisons, etc. is one hundred percent accurate. Without those labor reforms and legitimate regulations, millions of people worldwide would die as a product of ailments. Not all regulations are good, but many regulations are decent. Even your Republican buddies accept some regulations.

This is 2011 and in 2011, we need safety standards, pro-environmental protections, and other authentic boundaries in our society since we don’t live in the 19th century anymore. It’s just that certain folks want us to live in the 19th century though. I realize about China’s corruption. I’ve written for years against China’s population control measures, anti-Internet policies, and human rights violations.

People from across the political spectrum strongly disagree with the corruption going on in China. Using that logic, you can’t trade and talk with Saudi Arabia either. You talk about borrowing 1.65 trillion dollars a year. Yet, you omit that Wall Street corporations are hoarding $1.8 trillion dollars. The war on terror cost about $3.7 trillion for the past decade according to the newly released study from the Eisenhower Research Project at Brown University. Some estimate show the cost higher than that.

Regardless, we should built jobs first (and financially grow our nation) and then handle our deficit plus debt problems. People are starving to death. So that makes me to make a priority with promoting job creation above the debt. I respect human life above the debt.

We have a huge wealth inequality that helped to cause the recession. Specifically, economics professors Saez (UC Berkeley) and Piketty (Paris School of Economics) show that the percentage of wealth held by the richest 1% of Americans peaked in 1928 and 2007 - right before each crash. The rest of your stats are very deceptive. Under the Bush years, the poverty rate increased as compared to the Clinton years. The Bush years didn’t have radical economic growth as compared to the Clinton years too. Bush Jr. caused a governmental surplus to evolve into a deficit after the Clinton years. Bush rose the deficit and under his administration, the corporate pirates have caused the recession in the first place.

So, Bush experienced worst economic conditions than Clinton and the current President Barack Obama inherited the economic tragedies from the George W. Bush administration. Under Barack Obama, he compromised with the Republicans and adopted even some reactionary tax cuts policies. These policies didn’t great massive economic growth since the current President was compromising with the Republicans & your Tea Party clan.

That clan is a real CLAN if you get what’s I’m saying. I mean clan as in clique, LOL. Also, the median net worth for blacks and whites in 2009 are tragic. These events are caused by the effects of great recession that transpired first during the George W. Bush administration not because of the failure of real populist economic solutions (which haven’t been tried in this time at all).

You have the right to campaign with who you want. Col. Allen West is a man. I don’t believe in following any plantation whether the Democratic plantation or Republican plantation. I’m a grown black man. I don’t to adhere to some plantation period.You love the Republican plantation as you have admitted to.
I reject plantations, but I do accept in populism. This populism involves investments, apprenticeships, ending the war on terror, and even creating debtfree money. Also, I’m not an ignorant fool. You are ignorant by supporting the same policies (like banker speculation, derivatives, corporate raiding, privatization, Wall Street crimes, war mongering, austerity, and trickled down economics) that brought us into the recession in the first place.

By Timothy


Prof Marvel wrote:

How would you possibly know what these women endured since reading is obviously not something you either do or are very good at?
"The Help" is a valid representation of black maids during the 40s and 50s, your Black Power agenda notwithstanding.
If you want a story about black maids who were raped, abused, and treated like dirt wait until Spike Lee does his treatment of the topic.
'The Help' is not a valid representation of Black maids during the 40's and 50's. They did not live in nice homes as portrayed in the movie. They were physically abused by whites constantly! They were in a land that treated them as foreign, outcast, nobodies - ghosts of people behind shells of fear and alienation. Fear was a constant for African Americans in the South at that time and the KKK was running rampant. Older whites would kick young Black kids in the faces and call them the N word for nothing other than looking at them. This movie didn't chill my bones the way listening to people from the south of that time did. In addition, the movie wasn't an actual portrayal because, for the most part, anyone White who even attempted to help them would have been completely ostracized or maybe even killed. Many White civil rights activists who went into the South to help Blacks were killed! It was an evil time in the South. This is not to say that I think that all Whites are this way. Many Whites from the North fought in the Civil War and were killed trying to end slavery and many White civil rights groups in the North funded, promoted and took part in the civil rights movement fighting racism along side their Black, Asian and other brothers and sisters.

KayeKiLa (A Sister from Seattle, WA )


Zaius wrote:

It is easy to make claims such as this. Your democrat party does it all the time, and they depend on people like you to repeat it without the first bit of research.
That is why they give your kind piss poor school and no option for a voucher to escape them.
The democrat party requires an ignorant, emotionally reactive base.

I certainly hope so.
Like I've said before, I'm not a Democrat. I'm an Independent, so I don't get why you keep on calling me a Democrat.

I don't need them and I don't use them. It's as simple as that. I research all of the time. Also, I believe in reform. You just believe that everything private is good. I believe that both private and public solutions can be good and constructively utilized to solve problems. I beleive in school choice, but I don't marginalize every public school as extremely non-successful since plenty of successful public schools continue to exist in America.

I don't use emotionalism to articulate my positions. I used reasoned information and informed views. In the final analysis, both the Republicans and the Democrats aren't perfect. Each party has their own flaws and have their own constituents that love to drink the Kool-Aid in order to reinforce their ideological views. You have drunk the Republican Kool-Aid faithfully. That is you.

-By Timothy


Kashta_Bureh wrote:

Article I, Section 8.......of what document? I've read the Constitution, and I don't recall it mentioning the Federal Government being responsible for building roads and infrastructure, I thought that was the job of the STATE and LOCAL governments.
Americans already pay state and local taxes and these taxes go towards the construction of roads, bridges, and stuff like that. Welfare and these other social programs have nothing to do with that. State and local governments can raise plenty of money through sales tax, property tax, etc.
Yes, it does mention that Congress has the power to do it nationally or federally to put it in context. Even the state and local government need federal assistance in extreme circumstance (not in every instance obviously). Even if you exclude the Article, the elastic clause allows Congress to pass new laws when it's needed. Theoritically, Congress can pass more laws anyway. Article, Section 8 mention the following words:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

[b]To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;[/b]

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

To post roads, to promote the arts and sciences, to promote the general welfare of the people, to promote the elastic clause, and to promote a post office=infrastructure.

-By Timothy


Kashta_Bureh wrote:

WTF? Dude, you have no clue what you're talking about. The Great Depression happened AFTER the Federal Reserve was created, not before. Have you forgotten that the USA was established in 1776?
For the first 153 years of American history THERE WAS NO DEPRESSION. There were "recessions," not "depressions," Emperor John. Do you know the difference between the two? America didn't have the first depression until 1929, and that was because of the FEDERAL RESERVE, which was created in 1913 and its expansion of credit and "easy money" led to what became known as the ROARING TWENTIES.
You forgot about the panic of also forget that the Roaring twenties had a series of Republican presidents and congress. Now as for the age before the "Great Depression" there were many countless recessions occurring at a rate much higher than they occur now
Kashta_Bureh wrote:
Spend more time studying history, you have a lot to learn. One more thing, Roosevelt didn't get us out of the Great Depression, he exacerbated it. WORLD WAR 2 got us out of the Great Depression, because wars are good for an economy so long as that economy is not destroyed in the War, and the USA won WW2.
I love how conservatives like to repeat this lie. Roosevelt inherited a 25% unemployment in 1933 when he became Pres. By 1936 it was at 11%. In 1937 Roosevelt cut spending and raised taxes and the unemployment zoomed up again. Had Roosevelt stayed on his path he would have got us out.

Conservatives like you love to say that WWII brought us out of depression not government programs, but what was WWII. It was a major government stimulus program. THe government created jobs for people to go to work which is what they supposed to do in a stimulus program.http://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Great_Depression#Turnin g_point_and_recovery



emperorjohn wrote:

You forgot about the panic of also forget that the Roaring twenties had a series of Republican presidents and congress. Now as for the age before the "Great Depression" there were many countless recessions occurring at a rate much higher than they occur now

I love how conservatives like to repeat this lie. Roosevelt inherited a 25% unemployment in 1933 when he became Pres. By 1936 it was at 11%. In 1937 Roosevelt cut spending and raised taxes and the unemployment zoomed up again. Had Roosevelt stayed on his path he would have got us out.
Conservatives like you love to say that WWII brought us out of depression not government programs, but what was WWII. It was a major government stimulus program. THe government created jobs for people to go to work which is what they supposed to do in a stimulus program.http://en.wikipedia.or g/wiki/Great_Depression#Turnin g_point_and_recovery
peopel forget also that the USA resisted getting involved in the war and waited until Pearl Harbour in December 1941 .. the war had already gone in Europe over 2 years .... by then the USA economy was slow because busienss with Europe had slowed due to the war ...



Bychance37 wrote:
Famous quotes made by Halle Berry:
Blackness is a state of mind and I identify with the black community. Mainly, because I realized, early on, when I walk into a room, people see a black woman, they don't see a white women. So out of that reason alone, I identify more with the black community.
I don't see a white woman. I see a black woman, even though my mother is white [her father Jerome is black]. Knowing that has made my life easier, I think.
Gee funny how every media that ever talks about her or writes about her calls her black or African Amrican. Only Topix fools for whatever reason try to claim her. But she doesn't claim YOU.
Halle Berry is a HYPOCRITE, and all of the Blacks here who support IR dating, or who are in IR relationships, but then turn around and talk about Black unity and community are a bunch of HYPOCRITES. If you can't even enter a relationship with someone of your own race don't dare talk about Black unity, because you are the definition of Black DISUNITY.

You all have the right to do what you want, but let me tell you, I know more about IR than many of you because my aunt married a White guy and I spent time with them growing up. They have had some very difficult problems.

His family doesn't like her, and DID NOT want him to marry her. When I lived with them, they were discriminated against by other races besides Black and White, she had a Japanese landlord that was rude to them and caused all types of problems and they ended up having to move out.

My aunt can't live in majority or all Black neighborhoods, because of what other Blacks may think or do. They also can't live in all White neighborhoods, for the same reason. So they are limited in where they live, they can only live in diverse neighborhoods where different races live side by side. They DO NOT live in the Southern United states, and that is where her husband and family is from.

Those of you who support IR dating should go read up on Brazil, that country has a caste system where lighter skin is valued, the richest CEOs in Brazil(which I've already shown on this forum in other threads), have the lightest skin while the poorest are Black.

The richest families in America are WHITE and JEWISH and they DO NOT have bi-racial babies! They encourage YOU to do it so they can keep you divided and fragmented while they maintain control from the top, it is simple to see, a ten year old child can figure this out.



Kelly wrote:

Well, thank you Mr. Negative. I am not running around here in rose colored glasses and yes I agree people can be evil beings. I prefer my dogs to a lot of humans to but my point is that we are all humans and it don't or at least it shouldnnot matter what color a person is.
Anyway, you have a real nice day and just so you know, they do have anti-depressants on the market now, or as I call them "anti-pissy pills", might want to give them a try.
Kelly, you don't know me, there is nothing negative about me........I'm a REALIST, not an IDEALIST like you. Do you want to know how I know you are an idealist? Because you used the word SHOULD in your response to my statement above.

You said "it should not matter what color a person is." This is the statement of an idealist, people who talk about how things SHOULD be are idealists, a realist looks at the world AS IT IS.

I'm in the process of getting ready to LEAVE the United States, because I KNOW what is coming, I read the history and I know how empires rise and fall. And I also read Black history and I know why Black people fail, it is because of integration and continuously trying to ingratiate themselves with a race of people that DO NOT want to be with them. Most White people don't want integration, most White people don't marry outside the race.

The U.S. is NOT FREE, and it never has been for Blacks. Most of you are still slaves today, if you work at a 9 to 5 job for the White man then you are still a slave, a wage slave, I don't give a damn how much you make, as long as you work for him on his plantation HE WINS.

The Asians don't come to America and work on the White man's plantation aka companies, they come here and buy laundromats, businesses, and start companies and own their own plantation. Asians are family oriented, and stick with their people.

You people have been warned, it has already be foretold, America's time in the sun is coming to an end, this country is going to collapse and many of you are going into the grave with Uncle Sam and don't even realize it.

Zaius wrote:
He forgot to factor in the average IQ of a typical AA to start with, and never realized that the democrat party would addict them to public assistance to shore up their political power.
Perhaps, King didn't adequately factor in the social backwardness and stupidity of many whites who are dumb enough to starve themselves if it will keep Black folking from eating.
I still recall this white college student mentioned in the book WHITE LIKE ME, who said he'd accept a job paying a mere $1 dollar an hour if it would help restore de jure segregation.
It is not Black intelligence that is most questionable.



Stephanie wrote:
Black men and Black women aren't bashing each other,we like/love each other.Its you IR BM/BW instigating and bashing all for the sake of this sick competition you have between yourselves.Fighting over white peoples rejects[smh] true..C/S they need to stop sucking from the white peoples dog bowl and learn how to be human beings..



Stephanie wrote:
I/R BM/BW are the most delusional people on the planet.Why do they continuously try to promote the idea that the most successful and attractive black people date outside their race?To be fair the BM/BW are usually the better looking halves of these couples but the most attractive and successful blacks,I don't think so!!!

The IR BM and IR BW usually get average non-black spouses (sometimes outcast non-blacks), not the cream of the crop non-blacks (unless they are usually rich).

-By Timothy


White people also like to create the illusion that it's BM/BW who are desperate to date them and doing all the chasing.Thats why they create all these I/R tv shows and movies,to make themselves seem desirable to everyone.



Chip Westhoven wrote:

lol...."some rightist labels these persons as socialists "
..."savant",....they labeled themSELVES that way.
Are you REALLY having that much difficulty comprehending reality?
Let's try this another way. "Dumb it down", as they say,....
Plumbers don't have to SAY they're plumbers to prove it.
But, they don't join the ELECTRICIANS union.
I know you're a little slow, but let's try mayb4 a couple of examples.

A socialist first wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, but most Americans who recite it are not socialists.

Socialists in the late 18th & 19th Centuries were fighiting for the right to public education for common people (when once education was the privilege of the privileged).
Eventually, it became popular and indeed a reality (even if the privileged classes dumbed it down) for millions of people are not socialists.

Socialists pioneered the fight for the eight hour day a century before American or European working people won it. Most working people embraced and fought for it. But most of those working people were not socialists.

Socialists also pioneered the idea of universal health care, which is popular among millions of people who are not socialists.
But it has been WON in varying degrees in countries where socialist at least have great influence even if they're not a majority.
Now hom many Americans who pledge allegiance, desire the 8 hour work week, collective bargaining, social security, and nuberous other benefits are willing to give them up just because democratic socialists pioneered this?

I've learned from experience that it is not so much socialist ideas, but the idea of socialism that most Americans have trouble with.
I could draw up a petition or postion paper calling for universal heath care and get many ordinary people, and some libeal Demorats and church people to sign on to it.
But getting them to sign on to the idea of socialism itself is another matter.
There is only ONE known SELF-IDENTIFIED socialist in Congress, Barney Frank....unless another has been elected lately that I haven't heard about.



This line right here shows what you are all about.

Perhaps you care to explain why it is your business what folks do with the profits they 'earn' from working? Are you also angry that NBA stars and rappers are 'hoarding' the money they have earned as well?

Do you believe the federal government owns all wealth and allows private citizens to borrow it?

I really love when you go into the rant about how the 'rich' are not paying a 'fair share'.

Here is reality.

The top top 25% of earners contribute 86.34% of the tax money that makes this nation go around. The bottom 50% of earners contribute less than 2%. Probably closer to 0% in 2011.

You need to admit that you hate capitalism and the free market system and feel that you deserve to take what you want from whomever has it and divide it up however you see fit and 'fair', comrade.


My Response to Zaius:

To Zaius:

Nice false perceptions, but it doesn't work on me. I don't hate fair markets. I don't agree with the extremes of Communism nor crony capitalism. You love how I use slick terminology. That is my M.O. You know what's I'm about. I'm just in support of economic justice and exposing corproate corruption. I'm about truth and the non-scapegoating of the poor. I'm about living my life and rejecting the Left/Right Paradigm. I'm about going foward in my livelihood without trying to brainwash individuals into joining the reactionary "Let's blame the poor and be a lover of austerity" parade.

You have the right to join the celebration in that parade as it represents your dogma. I have right to join another parade of social justice and love for real freedom. Now, the rest of your statements are interesting. It is my business to investigate cash flow. The reason is that we are citizens and we have every right to see how are taxpayer dollars are being used. We have the right to use policies to prevent tax breaks or any other shady deals. A man legitimately earning wealth is fine. Yet, not every business is made up of straight arrow folks. History proves that legitimate regulation of business practices (not overbearing regulation) can have a stabilizing effect to prevent corruption. We have no right to steal wealth, but we have the right to prevent corruption when dealing with economic issues.

Are you angry that corporate CEOs ship jobs overseas, while workers starve at home? Are you angry that international corporations have record profits while record economic inequality exist worldwide (not only in America)? Are are you angry at some corporations promoting ecological disasters and labor plus human rights violations? See, the rappers and the NBA stars can't create wars on continents, they can't increase unemployment in a radical fashion, and they can't cause widespread ecological disasters like you know who can? We know who they are. NBA stars and the rappers should pay their fair share of taxes too. With much wealth comes great responsibility.

I don't believe that the federal government should own all of the wealth in the world. I am not a socialist. I do believe that the federal government can tax citizens and develop infrastructure as cited in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Borrowing wealth is a problem, but in the short term, we should create jobs for people first. Then, we can handle the debt and deficit issue more thoroughly. Cutting debt radically now won't equate into reasonable job creation.

I love my rants too. There are other sites that I can show and other studies that refute your claim that the super rich are some boy scouts acting in a scouts honor type of way. The reality is that income taxes aren't all taxes and they aren't even apart of all total taxes in the federal government. Here's another source from
"...While the richest one percent of Americans do pay about 40 percent of the total federal income taxes paid in the country, that’s a far cry from 40 percent of overall taxes. Even those working Americans who don’t make enough money to have federal income tax liability pay federal payroll and excise taxes, which fall much harder on the middle-class and low-income individuals than those at the upper end of the income scale.
Once all taxes are taken into account, according to the Congressional Budget Office, the richest one percent of Americans pay about 28 percent of total federal taxes, which is right in line with their 25 percent share of total income. And therein lies the real story: the richest one percent of Americans pay such a large share of federal income taxes because they make such a large share of the overall income..."

-By Timothy

soultry-soul8 minutes agoin reply to WhatManyPeopleThink
We will start with my family...6 older brothers all married (except 1 - divorced) to Queens. They were my 1st encounter to GOOD STRONG BLACK MEN:) and still are...I met my King in the grocery store...

I've encountered very pleasant nice looking Black Men at the gas station, I attend a lot of public events, hell...even at the Stop lights. The bottom line is Black Men are everywhere (are they GOOD BLACK MEN) I will say yes from the standpoint of them acknowledging their Sistah enough to say hello, or offer to pump my gas (small things).

You see, I'm not spending time trying to figure if these Bruthas I've met are married material because I'm married - one just has to determine if an individual is approachable enough to engage in a pleasant conversation. who knows where it might/could lead:)


soultry-soul1 month agoin reply to Iwillbfree
I'm a huge John Henrik Clarke fan...

Thank you for passing on the book list:)

"Powerful people cannot afford to educate the people that they oppress, because once you are truly educated, you will not ask for power. You will take it. "

~John Henrik Clarke (Jan 1, 1915 - July 16, 1998)

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